Closing Ceremonies: Blue Man Group

Recently, we learned that the beloved Blue Man Group will be closing their New York City and Chicago companies in 2025. This news was bittersweet, to say the least. 

Blue Man Group has impacted each of our personal and professional lives in many ways; not the least of which was the 25 years Laura dedicated to building the Blue Man Group brand as the VP of Communications. 

Learnings for our time and experiences with Blue Man Group have influenced and impacted nearly every facet of The Spark File - our mission and values, the way we’ve built and marketed the company, the way we treat each other and every member of The Spark File community....

Join us this week as we discuss all that we learned from this extraordinary organization—like how every voice in the room matters and the importance of processing conflict before continuing with a task – and we’ll explore how those lessons impact our work to this day.

We believe that endings are an essential part of the creative cycle. Shows close, messy manuscripts become bound books, art exhibits are hung with excitement and taken down with a pang of sadness. To find new beginnings, we must honor our endings–and this week, we feel profoundly aware of all that is lost, and all that is gained, when things end.

You can listen to the Spark File podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and directly on our website.

Chapters

• 0:00 The Spark File - Saying Goodbye
• 8:49 Blue Man Group Impact on Spark
• 19:49 Learning Organization Influence
• 39:24 Fanning Creative Sparks Into Flames

Transcript

The Spark File Podcast Transcript
Season 5, Episode 19 | Closing Ceremonies: Blue Man Group

Susan Blackwell:
Welcome to The Spark File, where we believe that everyone is creative, but smart creative people don't go it alone.

Laura Camien:
I'm Laura Camien.

Susan Blackwell:
And I'm Susan Blackwell. And we are creativity coaches who help people clarify and accomplish their creative goals.

Laura Camien:
Know that just by listening to this podcast, you are joining a warm and wonderful clan of creatives.

Susan Blackwell:
But, you may be asking yourself, ladies, what exactly is a spark file?

Laura Camien:
A spark file is a place where you consistently collect all your inspirations and fascinations. Every episode we're going to reach into our personal spark files and exchange some sparks, and from time to time we're going to talk to some folks who are sparkly and who spark us, too.

Susan Blackwell:
And your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to take some of those sparks of inspiration and make something of your own. So, without further ado, let's open up The Spark File. Laura Camien!

Laura Camien: 
Ooh, Suzy B.

Susan Blackwell: 
It’s spark day!

Laura Camien: 
It’s spark day! I am happy. I'm very happy about that it is. It's been a week. It's been a week not just here at the Spark File, but in the world at large. And this week won't be the week–there's no point in going into it, because all these things that are true in this moment won't be true when this podcast airs. I don't know if Owen did this as a blanket, but you know what was amazing Yesterday? I was having a crazy, weird, hard day and I'll talk about that in just a minute. But Owen, our sweet client Owen, out of the blue sends a recording of him singing a song and, with the note, “Today feels like a day and maybe you just need this.” And I was like how did you know? How did you know?

Susan Blackwell:   
He's the great Owen Panettiere. Yeah, he is.

Laura Camien:   
I was just like well, wow, thanks, I needed that, and I'm about to tell you why I needed that. Suze you ready. It's the topic of my spark. The thing is, everybody that's in this industry, meaning like the great big entertainment industry, knows that projects end, films move from a team on pre-production to a team on production and then post-production. The people change, the day-to-day changes, and then it ends. Art exhibits go up and come down. It's all part of the life cycle of creativity. We know that. It is not unique for a show to close, but it seems like it is never pain-free. No matter how it happens, no matter when it happens. And we found out just before Thanksgiving of last year, 2024,  that Blue man Group, the Chicago show and the Blue Man Group at the Astor Place Theater in New York City would be closing soon.

Susan Blackwell:
Yes.

Laura Camien:
So, we've been living with that, but as the date gets closer, it becomes more and more real, and at this point, Chicago has already closed and New York is closing on February 2nd. Oh, Suze, it really feels like the end of an era.

Susan Blackwell:
Yes.

Laura Camien:
And I know you feel that too, since we both go way back to the beginnings of it. But it's still open, like Blue man is still open in Las Vegas and in Berlin, but the home of Blue man Group is New York City. It's the flagship. I moved here in 1995. It has been here at the Astor Place Theater literally every single day. I've lived in New York and it's going to feel odd to be in a city that does not have Blue man Group in it. And even though, like I said, my personal goodbyes to working at Blue Man in  2017. But because Wes is still in the show and there are so many people that I cared about that were still working there, like a part of my heart has remained with it, for sure.

Susan Blackwell:
Of course, but now it really is time to say goodbye, and it's hard. It's hard to watch it happen, honestly, like it's hard, but I am very aware that, whether you're on Broadway and it happens quick, like just this season, Tammy Faye, uh, Swept Away both of them opened and then almost immediately announced their closing. And that really hurts when it happens that way. But we also know there can be post-show depression when your show closes at exactly the time  you knew that it would–meaning it's a limited run, you know when it's ending, or your college production that was only scheduled for six performances, and still there is sadness and there is loss. But when you enter into an open-ended run, you know you have an awareness that at some point that it will close, but you kind of put it out of your mind. If tickets are selling, you put it out of your mind and you sort of hope for the best. And when it continues to run year after year after year, it can begin to feel like it will always be there.

Susan Blackwell:
Yeah.

Laura Camien:
And so, even when you've been running for years, like Blue man Group at the Astro Play Theater, it hurts. Of course it is easy in these moments to have questions about what could have been done differently? But there's no point in going there. Shows close and it hurts. I was listening to the We Can Do Hard Things podcast with Mel Robbins as the guest. And she was talking about her book Let Them, which I just got and I'm very excited to read it, very excited. But she was talking about how so often in life, great things are happening Like this moment that she's in right now, like she's been accelerating towards this, like working really hard on all of this and it all seems to be culminating right now, and you know that, saying that your life can change overnight, but it takes 15 years to get to that night. She’s having this moment in her career with this book and she's worked hard for it. And now, of course, all this great stuff is happening, but hard things are happening too, and you know, when you think of, like, those amazing moments in your life that from the outside look like it's idyllic, look at it, it's incredible. But what you may not be aware of as an outsider is that, at the same time, amazing things are happening, you might be caring for a sick parent, or going through a divorce, or breaking up with a friend.

Susan Blackwell:
Mm-hmm

Laura Camien:
And what she said is that that's true for her right now too, and that she was really choosing to stay present to it all and really show up for it all. And that resonated for me in a really, really big way, because yesterday–I was listening to this in the morning and later in the day I was scheduled to go see the Blue man show because they were doing something really special. The original three Blue Men, Chris Wink, Matt Goldman and Phil Stanton, got bald and blue for the first time since 2011.

Susan Blackwell:
Wow.

Laura Camien:
And they did part of the show. They opened the show, they did a middle section of the show and then they ended the show. Oh my God, and you know, I know, you know this, Susan, but for everyone else, like, the show that's playing here at the Astor Place now is not the show that opened in 1991.

Susan Blackwell:   
It has been changed and updated, lots of changes. Yeah.

Laura Camien:   
And so there was content you know that they didn't write and weren't familiar with, so they went in and did the sections of the show um, that they that you know have been there since the beginning, and Susan. First of all, let me just talk about the show for a second, and I'll get back to my anxiety of it all. But they were incredible. It was incredible and you just felt a certain aliveness when they were on stage. It was just crackling with that you know, I was so present to the history of it all. Right then, like the way they created the show, how they did it before anyone believed it could be something Like the incredible content they created. The original show was so smart and so innovative, so ahead of its time. It made you think, it made you laugh. On the one hand, you're watching and thinking this is a crazy mess, Like what the hell is this? And then, on the other hand, you're feeling this deep connection and thinking something incredible and meaningful just transpired you know, and because it didn't have words…it wasn't… It's not like a story that's going to tell you exactly what you're supposed to feel, but those guys yesterday were incredible and all the times I'd watch them perform flash before my eyes.

Susan Blackwell: 
Yeah, it’s…seeing the three of them, and we have not talked about this yet.

Laura Camien:
No.

Susan Blackwell:
I'm hearing this for the first time.I knew that this was happening, but we haven't discussed it since you attended that very special show. It would be in my imagination, because I've seen those three do the show, oh my, so many times. Yes, as you have. You've seen the show—

Laura CamienL
Thousands.

Susan Blackwell:   
As many times as I have times…But it would be like seeing Fleetwood Mac reunite. It's like that. Yeah, it's like that, because there's so much history there and so many decades of life under the bridge and you see them slip into those roles and I imagine, I could be wrong, but it's kind of like seeing people slip on a glove. You know what I mean? That it's just like they created it. It’s in their bones.

Laura Camien:   
They embody it, it is in them One hundred percent. Yeah, that was incredible to see. And it was surreal, you know just watching, like the history flash before my eyes. I'm like… memories of, you know, there was a period of time where, after it opened in New York, it opened in Boston, then Chicago, then Vegas, and we would always open the show like the first month of performances, starting with like all the press previews, et cetera. It would be the three of them. And then it would be sort of a baton pass to the guys who would be there locally and would stay, and then all of us who were working at Blue Man Productions would like…ease on out of the city and be like and here you know, and there's your show. And so I was just like thinking of watching them in Chicago, watching them in Boston, watching them in Vegas. I, yeah, like you said, I've seen them perform hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times. And the thing was, getting back to all the big feelings of it all, After the show, there was a party, like a little get together, and this is odd, right, because it's a little bit of um…Is this a reunion? Is this a celebration? Is this a mourning? It's all mixed up in a big pot and all of it…I had anxiety going into it and I have social anxiety. In the best of situations, I have to psych myself up for a party on a good day. So this was a challenge. So as I listened to this podcast with Mel Robbins, I thought, okay, I'm going to make a choice. I am going to stay present to all of it. The good feelings, the not so good feelings and just stay open to it. I'm so glad I did, Suze. And I know we haven't talked about this and I don't want this podcast to be like a journal entry, but I just I'm so glad I did it. There were incredible friends from the past that I'm so happy to reconnect with. You know, we grew up together.

Susan Blackwell:
Yeah, truly.

Laura Camien:
like the lessons that we learned, we learned what not to do, what to do . I learned from this experience, what kind of person I want to be in this world and how I want to show up for the people I care about. I met mentors who I want to emulate. It was all of it, Susan. I mean, I worked at Blue man Productions for 25 years, so this goodbye kicks up a lot of dust and it offers the opportunity to really see how far I've come all the ways in which I've grown and to celebrate the world that I've built around me now with the Spark File, with Ms. Susan Blackwell and, by the way, so many Blue man friends have come through the Spark File, as clients and even some working with us more officially. The fact is, because I feel like and you tell me if you feel like this is true or not but because you were impacted by the Blue Man culture, because you were married to a Blue Man so long ago and I was on the inside of that culture for 25 years. There's no way the Spark file wasn't going to be impacted by the things we learned at Blue man Group.

Susan Blackwell:
Absolutely.

Laura Camien:
And things we learned directly from the founders of Blue Man Group. So I wanted to just like this. I'm so sparked by all of it and could talk for hours, and we probably will, but for today's podcast, I do want to share some of those learnings and, specifically, the ways in which it's impacted the Spark File.

Susan Blackwell:
Awesome.

Laura Camien:
So I'm working on a project now that we'll talk about later, but it'll lay out very specific ways the Spark File and other organizations have been impacted by the creativity and the innovation of Blue Man, but for now, I'd like to just mention a few that come to mind, like when I do the reflecting that you know all of this has caused me to do.

Susan Blackwell:   
And can I just say I recently saw a thing from the good people at the TED conference and they were talking about how a really great TEDtalk is a TEDtalk where somebody has had a lived experience and they come back, and they're like…I'm going to cut out the middleman and I'm going to give you the distillation of my learning and wisdom.

Laura Camien:   
Yes.

Susan Blackwell:   
From that lived experience.

Laura Camien:
Yes.

Susan Blackwell:   
And I feel like that's what we're about to get.

Laura Camien:   
Well, it's funny you say that because I think I'm working on this project that will be a really clear distillation of that.

Susan Blackwell:   
Uh-huh.

Laura Camien:   
And today will be…

Susan Blackwell:
An appe-teaser,

Laura Camien:
An appe-teaser! Yes, that's what it is. I love that. Yeah, Okay, and so I also should say this I left the company in 2017. So I can't say which of these things, like, held fast. I can't speak to the current state of things, so I'm just going to speak, mostly frankly, about the early years when Chris, Matt and Phil were the visionaries and the leaders of the organization and when, frankly, I was young and impressionable and soaking up every bit of learning that I could get. So, first of all, big takeaway is that integrity filters throughout an organization and it has to start with the leadership. In the early years, like Chris, Matt and Phil, you and I would talk about this a lot, even back then Suze, and now with the Spark File, but they would never disparage each other's opinions or decisions or even disagree with each other's opinions or decisions, or even disagree with each other's opinions or decisions, especially if that person was not there to explain their point of view, and what it alleviated, I would say, is that sort of like go to the other parent.

Susan Blackwell:
Triangulation. Yeah.

Laura Camien:   
There wasn't a feeling like, well, if Matt said no, I can go to Chris and get his approval, and so on. No, they worked very hard to have a unified voice and that impacted me in a really big way. And similarly, I know and have known from the beginning there's not a single conversation where you, Susan, are going to talk about me or I'm going to talk about you and contradict the other, to a client, to a member of the community. No way.

Susan Blackwell:   
To a coworker.

Laura Camien:   
Yeah.

Susan Blackwell:   
Not at all. No one.

Laura Camien:   
We're going to have each other's backs and we're going to have integrity in our speech, and I love that. I love that and I think about like, oh my gosh, that's a…We could draw a direct line from conversations that we had long ago about that dynamic to today, like getting to live that dynamic together.

Susan Blackwell:   
I'm grateful for it, yeah.

Laura Camien:   
And then at Blue Man Group early on, we would talk about how there was a reason why the show wasn't just called Blue man. It's not just about the character, it's also about the group. We would talk about the Gestalt, which is the idea that the group is bigger than the sum of its parts. It's better and smarter and funnier and all of the things than the sum of its parts. Together, we came up with better ideas than any one single person could come up with. Together, we were smarter than any one single person was. Every person was encouraged to have a voice. We would call this multiple perspectives, like the value of multiple perspectives, but really it was so much about the Gestalt. But there was a belief and a culture where all voices mattered. Everybody got to have a voice, and all feelings mattered too. It didn't mean that by expressing your feelings, you would always get your way, but it meant that there was space for those to–

Susan Blackwell:
Express your feelings–

Laura Camien:
Yes! And it was welcomed and specifically encouraged to express your feelings to the people or any person who actually had the ability to make change, rather than just spewing it out and whoever it lands on is where it lands, take your thoughts and feelings directly to people who can make a difference. I was thinking about the All Feelings Matter and, Susan, I don't know if you remember you just mentioned this the other day and how much it meant to you that you talked to Matt–

Susan Blackwell:
I know what you're talking about, so actually this was um. There was an internal sort of like a newsletter or magazine.

Laura Camien:
The Conduit.

Susan Blackwell:
The conduit not circulated via email, circulated in hard copies.

Laura Camien:   
It was a zine, it was our company zine.

Susan Blackwell: 
Printed, stapled, and there was an interview with Chris Mattenfeld and I cut out a paragraph of this interview and for years had it thumbtacked to my bulletin board and I actually at some point I misplaced it. It might be in one of my early paper spark files, I might still have it, but, um, it talked about how if they had a, say they had a special event, a special appearance coming up and they had   hours of work that they needed to do to prepare for that special event, they had actually on the clock, ten hours available to do the work but there was conflict that was going to take an hour or two to resolve. They would prioritize processing the conflict before moving back into rehearsal and preparation mode to get ready for the special appearance and I read that and I cannot tell you it made such an impression on my brain for a couple of reasons. Number one I was so fascinated by that prioritization and I also was fascinated by the prioritization just time-wise. I was fascinated logistically by it, but the prioritization of processing feelings and conflict so that the work was being made on a foundation that was clean.

Laura Camien: 
Yes, and we call that “clean as you go.”

Susan Blackwell:
Clean as you go, exactly, and we still do call it that!

Laura Camien:
We still call it that. No, that's what I'm saying.

Susan Blackwell:   
Yeah, we call it that and it's shorthand for “clean up on aisle five.”

Laura Camien:   
That's right, we all have felt that like how it feels in your body to have to stuff something down and be like, okay, great, but we don't have time for that right now. We have to focus on this, and no one feels good. You could argue that the work that gets done in those circumstances, isn't the best that it could be, and so, yeah, take the time to clean up and then move forward.

Susan Blackwell:   
Yeah.

Laura Camien:   
Yeah, I think we can draw a direct line there as well, yeah. You're making me remember something that I didn't have noted, but in the conduit there was an article that I have always thought of, written by Chris Wink, and it was about the vortex machines on stage. If you've ever seen Blue man Group, there are these two big, they're custom made big columns of water lit by lighting so they look like they're different colors. But you turn on the vortex machine and it starts, a motor starts to swirl the water around and eventually it forms a column and it looks like a tornado inside of uh inside of a box.

Susan Blackwell:
Liquid tornadoes.

Laura Camien:   
And he wrote a whole article paralleling the vortex machine to an organization's growth and how, at first, when that motor turns on, there's like a lot of particles. They're kind of going in different directions, they're like trying to find their way. And if you were to not secure that column to the ground, which it is like it is, bolted to the floor, the whole thing would topple over in the moment, right before it forms a perfect column and settles down, and he paralleled that to when you're building an organization, especially putting up a show, all of it right—it looks like it is about to fucking fall apart. This is never going to work. The whole thing is going to shatter, and yet if you wait a moment longer, it's about to get in alignment and all come together. And I was so inspired by that article. I'm going to look for it, Suze, the next time I'm up in my boxes of goodies. I'm like..I'm going to find those conduits, because I know I have it. And I'll find that other quote for you too.

Susan Blackwell:   
Awesome, awesome.

Laura Camien:   
So another thing that I know we didn't consciously take these things from Blue Man Group. It is just a part of. You can't be somewhere without absorbing learnings from them. You can't be somewhere without absorbing learnings from them. And at Blue Man Group we were committed to being a learning organization. We didn't need to know everything, we just needed to know that we were capable of learning and growing together. My God, is the Spark File a learning organization, Susan Blackwell? They had never produced a show or run a creative organization before, but they learned how to do it. We had never recorded and launched an album before, but I have a gold record on the wall to indicate I think we figured it out. We hadn't created a toy line or a children's museum exhibit, or an educational program. And the term learning organization was coined by Peter Senge in his book the Fifth Discipline. A learning organization is one that facilitates learning among its team members, constantly transforms itself and can adapt to challenges in its environment. Again, Susan, when we did all of our planning for the SparkVal, we didn't specifically say “And we'll be a learning organization!” But here are the key components of being a learning organization and you tell me if you think we qualify. So key components of a learning organization are that you have a collaborative culture where ideas and knowledge are shared openly.

Susan Blackwell:
Yes.

Laura Camien:
Everyone has the mindset of being a lifelong learner, we're always going to be adding to the base of knowledge and our personal mastery. A learning organization is always questioning the existing models and determining whether to innovate and do it their own way or do it the way it's always been done. There's a shared vision for the future and they champion knowledge sharing and team learning. So when one person on the team gains knowledge, we all gain knowledge.

Susan Blackwell:   
Hmm. Yeah, yeah, I'd say we qualify.

Laura Camien:   
I would say we qualify! I mean, we have been learning this entire time. We're just like well, we'll figure that out, and when I learn this I'll tell you about it, and when you learn that you'll tell me about it. And we're swapping learning, you know, every time we record a podcast, yeah.

Susan Blackwell:
We're doing it now!

Laura Camien: 
We're doing it right now, Susan. Soaking in it, soaking in it. So those are just a few ways that we've been influenced by Blue Man Group. There are many, many more. But one final one I want to mention is that Matt Goldman would talk frequently about how we wanted Blue Man Group to be a place where every single person was treated just a little bit better than they were in the outside world. Not a not a grand proclamation in any way. But just this understanding that when you got to work you were going to be treated a little bit better than you were treated elsewhere. And, Suze, I feel like in the Spark File, we have co-created, along with our incredible community, a place where you can expect that when you log on to that Zoom room, you're going to be treated with kindness and warmth and respect, and it's a place where it is safe to be your whole self.

Susan Blackwell:   
That's true, it's so funny. When you said it I was like, well, isn't that wonderful, what a great sentiment. And I was like oh yeah, we do do that we do do that.

Laura Camien:   
It's in our guidelines. We do do that. We do do that. It's in our guidelines. I'm just really proud of that and I'm grateful. I'm grateful for all the lessons learned at Blue Man things I learned in a fun way and things I learned the hard way. All of those lessons have funneled into the creative organization that we are running now. Suze.

Susan Blackwell:
It's true, it's true.

Laura Camien:
So every one of us knows what it feels like to have a creative project come to an end, and I don't think there's ever a way for it not to be filled with complex feelings. I'm hanging with those feelings and trying to be present for the loved ones in my life who are having complex feelings as well. Yeah, but again, we talk about this in the spark file. We know that it's all part of the creative cycle. There's creation, then maintenance, then destruction.

Susan Blackwell:
Yeah.

Laura Camien:
After destruction, we get to rise like a Phoenix from the ashes with fresh, new creative ideas. You know I had the pleasure of dining with, my God the best, TamiEvans. Spark File alum.

Susan Blackwell:   
Oh, Tami Evans!

Laura Camien: 
I love Tami. Tami brought up something that she's been thinking about what happens after destruction? She's thinking like there may be another stop on the you know, on the cycle. Sometimes we start the next project before the current one ends, and that's awesome. That's awesome when we do, but sometimes we need some time in the liminal space. We need to be in the in-between for a bit to restore, reflect, replenish our creative spirit, and then we're ready to create again. Either way, there's more creativity to come, and I say this to all of my Blue Man loved ones. If you're ready to jump into the next creative thing or if you need to hang in some liminal space for a while so you can rest and repair, either way, you're still in the game, you're still living the creative cycle and there's no shame.

Laura Camien: 
Something that we talk about in the Spark File is Priya Parker's book the Art of Gathering, and how she talks about endings as a powerful opportunity to make meaning by reflecting on what happened and what they learned, and thanks to this podcast, I got a chance to do that today, thank you. It's also a time to connect with others, sharing how they'll apply what they learned, prepare for re-entry and have a ceremony. Learned, prepare for re-entry and have a ceremony. It's so clear to me that the intentional use of ritual can really help people heal from the pain of endings. My dear, sweet friend and our SparkFile client, Bryce Krausman, illustrated this to me like in the most perfect way. Bryce has owned and operated a restaurant in Las Vegas for many years. It's called DW Bistro. It's a place where community gathers for drag brunches and gospel brunches. They fed people all through the pandemic. It is a place with such heart and soul, and Bryce made the decision to close it in 2025. What he did to me is the perfect example of how it's done thoughtfully and intentionally. He decided to close DW Bistro with the same ceremony, ritual and celebration that you would celebrate for an opening. Oh yes, he announced it months in advance. He has planned celebratory events along the way, communicated about them, made space for connection to happen and for everyone to prepare for re-entry, and he's planning for the next creative adventure, which he's going to announce and communicate before the closing. It is a lesson on how it's done, with clear communication, embracing the pain of the loss, loss and celebrating the connections that exist because of the restaurant, giving everyone a chance to engage in the ritual of the closing ceremony. Priya Parker outlines two essential phases of a strong closing. You know them, Suze. Looking inward and turning outward. She says, “Looking inward is about taking a moment to understand, remember, acknowledge and reflect on what just transpired. On the other hand, turning outward is about preparing to part from one another and take your place in the world.” In the Spark File we have rituals for the closing of our courses and, Susan, if you don't mind, I'm going to borrow from our ritual. And, in honor of all my Blue Man Group friends, I would like to read the Rumi poem that we use to honor our course closings.

Susan Blackwell:   
Love it.

Laura Camien:   
“I know you're tired, but come, this is the way. In your light I learn how to love. In your beauty, how to make poems. You dance inside my chest where no one sees you, but sometimes I do, and that sight becomes this art. You and I have spoken all these words, but for the way we have to go, words are no preparation. I have one small drop of knowing in my soul. Let it dissolve in your ocean. A mountain keeps an echo deep inside. That's how I hold your voice. Do not feel lonely, the entire universe is inside you. Stop acting so small. You are the universe in ecstatic motion. Set your life on fire. Seek those who fan your flames.”

Susan Blackwell:
Yes!

Laura Camien:
 And that's my spark, Susan. I really appreciated getting the like. I got the opportunity to do exactly that, like reflect on the learnings that I took from it and, um, I'm grateful once again grateful for this podcast and this place where we can talk about these ideas.

Susan Blackwell:   
I know that endings and closings have…they're very dynamic, there's a lot going on and there's grief, especially something that essentially raised you. You know you've just clocked 10 million hours. You and Wes have…It's been woven into the fabric of your life. So to have it conclude at the Astor Place Theater and at other theaters in the US is really, really significant, and I'm so grateful for all of the experience and learning and wisdom that you carry inside you, that you carry into the Spark File, and even though that theater will eventually house some other creativity some other shows some other fresh creativity, you will still have all of that lived experience and wisdom that you can do whatever you want.

Laura Camien:     
I'm so grateful, I am truly grateful this kid from Kansas showed up in New York and made one phone call and got a job at Blue Man Group as it was ascending, you know, from its off-Broadway show and you know subsequently the people that I met, the mentors that I got to learn from  countries. I've flown around the world so many times. I didn't even have a passport growing up in Kansas. You know, no one I knew had a passport.

Susan Blackwell:
Of course.

Laura Camien:
And I'm so very, very grateful for all the friendships and relationships and learnings that I get to take with me from it all.

Susan Blackwell:
Laura. I love that, yeah.

Laura Camien:
Thanks, Susan.

Susan Blackwell:
Alright, I guess that's it. This episode of the Spark File was made on the lands of the Lenape and the Mohican people and, as always, we hope it put another bunch of sparks in your file. Listen, if there's a spark you'd like us to explore or if you'd like to learn more about how to coach with us to accomplish your creative goals, you can email getcreative@thesparkfile. com or reach us through our website, thesparkfile. com.

Laura Camien:   
We will even happily take your feedback, but you know the price of admission. First you have to share a creative risk that you've taken recently.

Susan Blackwell: 
You can follow us on social @ theSparkFile and be sure to subscribe, rate and five-star review this podcast. It really does help other listeners to find us. Also, if you liked this podcast, we hope you'll share it with people that you love, and if you didn't like it, go close your show.

Laura Camien:   
Oh, if something lights you up and gets your creative sparks flying, we're writing you a forever permission slip to make that thing that's been knocking at your door. It's your turn to take that spark and fan it into a flame.

Susan Blackwell:
You know you gotta take it…

Both:
And make it!

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