The Spark File with Susan Blackwell and Laura Camien

The Creative Act

• Season 5 • Episode 10

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Here at the Spark File, creativity is a way of life and a way of being in the world. 

In this week’s episode of The Spark File Podcast, Laura digs into Rick Rubin’s book The Creative Act: A Way of Being. A profoundly successful American record producer, Rubin is the co-founder of Def Jam recordings, founder of American Recordings and former co-president of Columbia Records. He is someone who has spent his life making things—and, like us, he believes creativity is so much more than one project: it’s a whole way of being! 

Join us as we discuss how to break down barriers to the act of creation, making it more attainable in aspects of our lives. We’ll hit the highlights of Rubin’s musings, and share some of our thoughts on the power of infusing your life with creative energy.

BRAVE Creatives! Your creative work is needed now more than ever. 

Join us for The Spark File 2025 New Year Creativity Kickoff

January 1, 2025 from 11am - 6:30pm ET

This one day virtual retreat will help identify and clarify your creative vision, and chart a course for completion.

LEARN MORE 


The Spark File Podcast Transcript
Season 5, Episode 9: The Creative Act

Susan Blackwell:
Welcome to The Spark File where we believe that everyone is creative, but smart, creative people don't go it alone.

Laura Camien:
I'm Laura Camien

Susan Blackwell:
And I'm Susan Blackwell, and we are creativity coaches who help people clarify and accomplish their creative goals.

Laura Camien
You should know that just by listening to this podcast, you are joining a warm and wonderful clan of creatives.

Susan Blackwell
But hold up, you might be asking yourself what exactly is a spark file?

Laura Camien
A spark file is a place where you consistently collect all of your inspirations and fascinations. Every episode, we're going to reach into our spark files and exchange some sparks, and from time to time, we're going to talk to some folks who spark us too.

Susan Blackwell
And your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to take some of those sparks of inspiration and make something of your own. So, without further ado, let's open up the Spark File. Hi Laura Camien. You know I love podcast day.

Laura Camien:
I know it's podcast day. It's super fun, I love it. I looked at my calendar and I was like I have a really full day and it ends with podcasting, so come on.

Susan Blackwell:
Can I, before we jump into your beautiful, beautiful spark, I want to share something with you and with our listeners. Okay, this is an invention that  was created by a spark filer named Jess Edelstein. It's called Moops. You can't see it, listener, but I'm holding it up and showing it to Laura Camien. It is for people like myself who are a touch lactose intolerant. And she has she's. This is not her first product that she's invented but, oh my God, it may be the best.

Laura Camien:
You have told me this was life changing and I've passed it on to my lactose intolerant friends.

Susan Blackwell:
So instead of taking like a chalky tablet, you— it comes in this really cool, it's so good, it's so substantial, but it comes in this little squirt bottle and I just literally pump it into my mouth one, two, three, four. It tastes great, amazing. The flavors are great. My favorite is vanilla. There is a vanilla flavor that is so good. And I'm trying to take in a lot of protein and, as a result, I'm eating a lot of cottage cheese and I'm eating a lot of yogurt, and so I am taking this, I'm taking Moops like it's my job and it's holding me together.

Laura Camien:
It's so good you are the Moops ambassador. To be honest, Susan, I didn't even know you were lactose intolerant.

Susan Blackwell:
Well, it's just it. When I'm taking in that much dairy you know, it's just it really makes my tummy rumble.

Laura Camien:
I had no idea, and this has. This has brought us closer. I feel like I've learned something new about you. This has brought us closer.

Susan Blackwell:
Listen, but I really want to shout out that this is not a paid endorsement. I bought my own Moops. This one. These were not gifted—

Laura Camien:
But you are angling for the Moops, ambassador job and I think you're first in line.

Susan Blackwell:
First, first Moops influencer. It's so good. The packaging is so cute. It's so satisfying. I cannot recommend it highly enough, and if I didn't feel that way, I would not be saying these words but I freaking love it.

Laura Camien:
You would keep quiet is what you would do. I know that about you. And you have shouted it from the mountaintops and I think that it's incredible. I think Jess is incredible, we love Jess and so it's a great product. It's so great when you can really endorse something full force, full force, 100% Spark File approved.

Susan Blackwell:
And when you're trying to eat healthy, I'm trying to eat healthy. This is the best tasting thing I eat all day. Is this Moops right here, I'm like, mmmm… I get my Moops, my Moops, shot.

Laura Camien:
It's going to be its own dessert. It's going to be its own little thing. You could have, yeah, just a little thimble of Moops it doesn't have anything to do with whether you're lactose intolerant.

Susan Blackwell
Moops three ways. It's so good. Anyway, I understand that you have a spark for me.

Laura Camien:
It's me turn! I've got a spark for you and once again, I've got a spark that's too big for these pants. I've got an extra large turtle and an extra small shell, but I'm going to put it out there and we're going to do our best. I'm just going to, I'm going to pull out a few concepts that we can explore together, and then everybody can go off and do their extended studies on their own. And, as you like to say, Susan, it's the very best kind of homework, because we will never know whether or not any of our listeners actually did it.

Susan Blackwell:
The best.

Laura Camien:
So, Suze, I am sparked today and most days by Rick Rubin's book called The Creative Act: A Way of Being.

Susan Blackwell:
Oh, hells, yes, Hells, yes.

Laura Camien:
You've heard me talk about this before, but I'm going to get specific and jump into some things today. So this book came out last year. I jumped on it immediately because you know I love a good creativity book and, of course, Rick Rubin has his own unique perspective on all of it. But I was really excited to read it and to feel so aligned in so many ways, like it's very validating to hear someone with his experience, um decades and decades and decades of experience describe so many things that we talk about, like, in a very similar way. So there's so many gems of inspiration in this book. It really balances this spiritual and mystical side of creativity with the practical side of creativity.

He's got great ways of explaining what happens during the creative process and, as you know, we believe like there is something magical to the act of creation, without a doubt. But it's also wonderful to parse out the parts of it that are learnable so that we can invite in the magical. As always, one of our intentions is to help other people feel not so alone on the journey. So, with your consent, dear listener, I would like to make a bold recommendation. Not only should you dive into this book as soon as possible, I would recommend specifically that you get the audio version and, if you like to go on long walks, as I do, just put it on, put it in your ears and let yourself go into a meditative state with Rick Rubin.
It is transcendent it really is. I mean his voice, like he speaks about creativity in a way that many of us feel creativity Like it's almost spiritual. His voice is so clear and reverent. There's even like a little gong in between each chapter. I actually might go so far as to say don't listen while driving, Like it has that kind of like it's so meditative, you may fall into a trance. For me, anyway, when I would be walking to it, I would hear something of his and then my mind would go on a journey and then I would come back and be like wait, a second, hold up. I think I missed half of this chapter because I went. My mind went somewhere nice.

Susan Blackwell:
You know what I mean.

Laura Camien:
Yeah, all right. So today I want to do a deep dive into my favorite topic, which is creativity, with my favorite partner in crime, creative crime, which is Susan Blackwell. Creative crime, creative crime Oops, I'm a repeat offender. What a nerd I'm Creative crime Oops, I'm a repeat offender. What a nerd. I'm such a nerd, okay. I better move on to Rick Rubin, because I'm a weirdo, all right. So let's just start with who is Rick Rubin, in case you're wondering, how and why does this guy know so much about creativity? If you're not familiar with Rick Rubin from his very own website, you can learn that he is a nine time grammy winning producer, he was named one of the 100 most influential people in the world by Time magazine and the most successful producer in any genre by Rolling Stone. He has collaborated with artists from Tom Petty to Adele, Johnny Cash to the Red Hot Chili Peppers, Beastie Boys.

Susan Blackwell:
Beasties, yeah!

Laura Camien:
I was going to say Susie's favorite, favorite Beastie Boys to Slayer yeah, my favorite. No, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. Although I respect Slayer.

Susan Blackwell:
You love Slayer.

Laura Camien:
I couldn't name a song of theirs, but I do respect them. The breadth of his work. The breadth. My God, I haven't even mentioned Kanye West to the Strokes System of a Down to Jay-Z, I mean it's just yeah, that's amazing. He's amazing. He's amazing. So he's very well versed in bringing a creative expression to life, like from the germ of an idea to its full expression, and his forte has been in record producing and music very specifically, but the principles that he talks about apply to all kinds of creative expression, so I'm just going to get into a few highlights here. First up, I love how Rick Rubin describes the fact that everyone is creative. He likens it to nature and how nature is continually creating and recreating, and so are we. He says this regardless of whether or not we're formally making art, we are all living as artists.

We perceive, filter and collect data, then curate an experience for ourselves and others based on this information set, whether we do this consciously or unconsciously, by the mere fact of being alive, we are active participants in the ongoing process of creation. He goes on to say to live as an artist is a way of being in the world, a way of perceiving, a practice of paying attention, refining our sensitivity to tune into the more subtle notes, looking for what draws us in and what pushes us away, noticing what feeling tones arise and where they lead. Attuned choice by attuned choice, your entire life is a form of self-expression. You exist as a creative being in a creative universe, a singular work of art. Suze, as you well know, we both believe there is no greater work of art you can create than your life itself. How you mark your days, friends, this is it.

Susan Blackwell:
Yes.

Laura Camien:
How you spend your precious time on earth crafting the next chapter of your life so that it is as full of joy and wonder and aliveness as possible. This is the most worthy creative project we can imagine. And the thing is, Rick Rubin points out that we can do this consciously or unconsciously, but either way we are creating our lives. I'm a big proponent of being as conscious as possible, making attuned choice after attuned choice so that you get to experience as much of the goodness in life as possible. And again he talks about creativity as a way of being in the world, meaning it's not about the output. It's not as much about what you have accomplished or made. It's about the way you move through the world with curiosity and openness and attention. And it really reminds me of the way that we talk about the spark generation phase in the creative process, Suze. We're always talking about it being a state of mind like remaining open and present to life.

Susan Blackwell:
Mhmm.

Laura Camien:
It's a way of moving in the world where you're present, to the ideas and the images and the inspiration all around you. Rick Rubin writes it in this way, “Broadening our practice of awareness is a choice we can make at any moment. It is not a search, though, it is stoked by a curiosity or hunger. A hunger to see beautiful things, hear beautiful sounds, feel deeper sensations, to learn and to be fascinated and surprised on a continual basis.” Mmm, I loved that so much because I just think about alright, we've told many of our clients this, Suze. I'm not sure if we've talked about this on the podcast or not, but forgive me if I'm repeating, friends, but when we first began dreaming up the Spark File podcast, it was born out of us questioning what we want the next chapter of our lives to look like.

Specifically, we believed that we could create the lives we wanted to be living. We believed that we could create the lives we wanted to be living and, on the one hand, we knew we wanted to put to use all of the creative skills we had acquired over our lifetime by helping other people achieve their creative goals. But it was not entirely altruistic and unselfish, because we also knew that it was important to us that we continue to grow and learn, engage our brains and be inspired. And we wanted to craft a way of life where the mindset of curiosity and inspiration was built into the fabric of our everyday life.

Susan Blackwell:
Like this podcast.

Laura Camien:
Like this podcast, that's it. And that's how we came up with the idea of the Spark File. Like, what if we were always seeking, always bringing our attention to the things that intrigued us, things that expanded our minds or engaged our imaginations? And what if we shared those inspirations with other people? Maybe we could multiply and amplify the amount of inspiration in the world and, potentially, the amount of creative work that gets done. I mean, that was so thrilling. The idea of that, the prospect of that was like. It was just one of those moments where we were like, yes, that's it, if we could live our lives that way every day, we would be fulfilling so much inside of ourselves and encouraging it in others. So when I read about Rick Rubin saying we can consciously create our lives and we can choose to be in a mindset of receiving the beauty and the sensations in life, I'm just jumping up and down in my chair Like, yes, yes, yes, yes, you really can. We have done it. We are living it. You can do it, listener, you can do it. So that got me super juiced and that's pretty early on in the book, so of course I'm like I am all in.

Another topic that he covers in various chapters is self-doubt and the various places in the creative process where people tend to get stuck, and he offers up one of the very best ways that we know how to keep going, and that is to lower the stakes. Lower the stakes, he says, and you know I felt this, susan. We tend to think that what we're making is the most important thing in our lives and that it is going to define us for all eternity. And you know, Susan, we have talked about this before. Like that thought kept me from creating for so long, because I had a friend (air quotes) friend who read my work and I think it was maybe only like the second play I'd written, and she said “Ew, I don't know why you always have to write these like women's stories.”

Susan Blackwell:
Wow.

Laura Camien:
And I was gutted. I was so gutted that I could not think of what to say at the moment. But as I reflected on it I was really pissed and I wondered, like how many people had said to Sam Shepard dude, you can't be writing only these stories about dudes. Like, do you really want to be known for only dude stories? I don't think anybody asked Sam Shepard that. I don't think anybody said you can't base a whole career just writing about men. That was such a paralyzing thing for me because the idea of my creative work, defining me in a particular way, slowed me down and what it caused me to do is filter every bit of work that I started through this lens of like, ah, will this work show everything that I'm capable of? Will it show that I'm funny? Will it show that I'm smart? Will it make people feel deeply? Will it show substance and style? Will it be life changing? I mean, it's an impossible criteria. It's impossible. And when I look back on it now I feel sad because there are so many things I thought about writing and I didn't write them because they did not fill that criteria.

Susan Blackwell:
Wow.

Laura Camien:
Obviously nothing could. And yet if I had written all of them individually. Instead of just one single play defining me at this point, a lifetime of work could define me. Do you know what I mean?

Susan Blackwell:
I do. I'm also thinking about Rick Rubin, talking about lowering the stakes as a way to free your creative self-expression, and he is working with high visibility—

Laura Camien:
Very—

Susan Blackwell:
High stakes—

Laura Camien:
Yes, and he goes on to say that all of us should consider moving forward, that all of us should consider moving forward with a more accurate point of view, that it's a small work, it's a beginning, and the only mission is to complete the project so that you can move on to the next. The next one is a stepping stone to the following work, and so it continues in productive rhythm for the entirety of your creative life. So instead of thinking, oh, this piece of work has to represent everything about me, this piece of work only needs to be complete and then I'll move on to the next piece of work. That's it.

Susan Blackwell:
I'm fascinated by this. I'm fascinated by this in the context of his life and I think it's a mindset game that he doesn't get—when he's in a studio with Adele and they're making something together that could really, if you were a certain kind of person, that could really make you quite anxious.

Laura Camien:
Oh, sure, that this work has to top my last work.

Susan Blackwell:
But if he's just like, we're just going to do the best thing we're going to complete the best thing that we can, that in this version of Adele and this version of Rick Rubin can complete in this moment.

Laura Camien:
It just needs to be the expression of who you are and what you're thinking and feeling in this moment.

Susan Blackwell:
Wow.

Laura Camien:
And then we'll move on to the next, and he says it's helpful to see the piece we're working on as an experiment. And Susan, again, when our coach, Jennifer Rosenfeld, introduced us to the concept of what if it's all an experiment?

Susan Blackwell:
Yes.

Laura Camien:
That was a game changer for us, because I don't think this will surprise anyone and I hope you don't mind me speaking for you too, but we both have a touch of perfectionism in us.

Susan Blackwell:
Uh-huh.

Laura Camien:
And it can slow us down and thinking of building the spark file as an experiment was such a gift it gave us permission to try things, to let things not be perfect, to learn things and then integrate the learnings which I think we always have. Like we really try to listen to our clients, listen to you know people, that feedback from things that people have worked with us on and always like fine tuning and fine tuning and it's a lifesaver, it's a game changer. Friends, if you can adopt this idea for your creative work, you are guaranteed, I promise you you will see huge leaps and bounds in your creative life If you can see it all as an experiment. Turn down the stakes, lower the stakes…all you know—I think about this a lot and I've said this in some of our classes. But, like, the sole purpose is the only thing a first draft has to do is exist. That's it. That is, the goal of a first draft is to exist. Lower those stakes. Your first draft does not have to be the thing you think you're handing into a publisher or the thing you think that's going to open on Broadway tomorrow, like those are such extreme, big, big, big pressure situations that will stop you from even putting the next little blurb on the page.

Susan Blackwell:
Yeah.

Laura Camien:
Lower those stakes, lower those stakes. So, yes, I think I feel like, with the spark file probably me personally, probably the first time, probably me personally, probably the first time—Number one, it's like probably the thing I'm most proud of, but also it's the first time that I allowed myself to think of something as an experiment. I've got all these scripts and things that I like…Well, it's not everything, it's not every possible thing, it could be—

Susan Blackwell:
Yeah.

Laura Camien:
And I finally, I feel like, learned how to lower the stakes and how to let something be an experiment that you keep learning and growing from over and over again. So Rubin also really emphasizes intuition over technique. He really believes that creating the work is only for you. He says the audience comes last, meaning first and foremost, it needs to please you, and by doing that you are likely to find your audience.

Laura Camien:
The personal is universal. So, rather than trying to predict what some imaginary person is going to think of your work, make it so you love it, that you would change nothing about it and then release it into the world with no expectation of outcome.

Susan Blackwell:
This reminds me, Laura, of when we were leading a workshop for the Miranda Family Fellows at the beautiful United Palace.

Laura Camien:
Oh my gosh, that was awesome.

Susan Blackwell:
And then in that sitting, in that big circle, in discussion with Lin-Manuel Miranda, and he was talking about how the song needs to move you. First it needs to make you cry first, it needs to touch you first.

Laura Camien:
That's right.

Susan Blackwell:
Long before you are even concerned about what impact it's going to have on anybody else.

Laura Camien:
And if it doesn't do that, like, go no further, like it has to move you, and for it to do that you've got to get in touch with your likes and your dislikes and what you know what resonates for you and the idea of then releasing it with no attachment to the outcome, that's an idea. We talk a lot about releasing the need for a particular outcome In the SparkVal. We talk about that and oftentimes we talk about it specifically as it relates to reaching out to a person or asking for something like a collaboration, et cetera. We believe you should extend the kindest, most honest ask that you can and then release the attachment to the outcome.

Susan Blackwell:
Yep.

Laura Camien:
But this can and should apply to releasing your work into the world as well, and should apply to releasing your work into the world as well. Rubin writes “When you believe the work before you is the single piece that will forever define you, it's difficult to let it go.”

Susan Blackwell:
It's too much.

Laura Camien:
It's too much, but, he says, “the urge for perfection is overwhelming. Releasing a work into the world becomes easier when we remember that each piece can never be a total reflection of us. It can only be a reflection of who we are in this moment.” This idea that the work is, for you, a reflection of you in this moment, and Rubin's encouragement to get to know what you like, trust your intuition that is something so aligned with what we believe in at the Spark File. Our goal is for you to become more of you, for you to become the artist that you were meant to be. And that is different from the artist that Susan Blackwell is or the artist that I am. We're not trying to get you to do or be or express anything other than what you were meant to express, in a way that only you could express it.

Susan Blackwell:
Yeah. I think that has changed a lot over time. I think about the training that we received when we were coming up, through acting school et cetera, where it was sort of like…we're going to break you down so we can rebuild you and we want to rebuild you in a model that is going to be very appealing and castable, so it's going to fit into a predetermined form or type, and I think that there is much more emphasis I hope there's much more emphasis now on bringing forward the most unique, self-expressed version of yourself as an artist.

Laura Camien:
I hope there's more of that, Suze. I think we may be more attuned to those messages in the world, because that's what we look for and who we are.

Susan Blackwell:
Yes. Yup.

Laura Camien:
But you can learn technique at any number of schools or any class if you want to learn technique, but learning to find your unique voice and your own point of view is its own journey.

Susan Blackwell:
Yeah.

Laura Camien:
And I would say that it is an essential part of the creative process and you can layer on technique on top of that which is great, of that which is great, but that you being the most you that you can be and expressing yourself in the way that you were meant to and that only you can.

Susan Blackwell:
It goes a long way.

Laura Camien:
Goes a long, long way, and that's one of the reasons why our feedback process is focused on the artist. Like the artist decides what they need, what feedback they're looking for, and it is our job to support them. It's not about following our instructions. It's about them following their own intuition. Rick Rubin says we are “dealing in a magic realm. Nobody knows why or how it works.” And I think that is the truth. If you're looking for someone to tell you exactly how to express yourself, you won't find a satisfying answer, because the answer is within you. What you really have control over is your own mindset, the time and space that you dedicate to your creative vision, and the mentors and supportive community you surround yourself with. That is what you can control, and I will leave it there for now. There is so much more in this book, The Creative Act by Rick Rubin. I highly recommend it. Take a look or listen. It's like a little gift to your creative spirit,

Susan Blackwell:
Laura, what a great spark! And I have admired this book. It looks like a piece of modern art which I love.

Laura Camien:
Yep, 100%. And it's all just so validating for the artist to—it's both validating and encouraging, and the hardest thing that most artists know how to do, which is follow their own unique intuition and their own unique creative voice their own unique creative voice.

Susan Blackwell:
I love this. What a great spark!

Laura Camien:
I'm so happy to share. It makes me very happy and, um, truly, truly, it's all part of like making sure that none of us feel alone on this, on this crazy journey, like there are pieces of this creative process that can be learned by all of us and the rest of it that is unlearnable. We can simply support each other in it.

Susan Blackwell:
Yeah, I love that. It's the magical and the mystical, the magic realm. Yeah, that's right, I love that. Oh, Laura, good spark, all right, that's it! This episode of the Spark File was made on the lands of the Lenape and the Mohican people and, as always, we hope this put another bunch of sparks in your file. Listen, if there's a spark you'd like us to explore, or if you'd like to learn more about how to coach with us to accomplish your creative goals, email getcreative@ thesparkfile. com or you can reach us through our website, thesparkfile. com.

Laura Camien:
We will even happily take your feedback, but you know the price of admission. First, we would like you to share a creative risk that you have taken recently.

Susan Blackwell:
You can follow us on social @ theSparkFile and be sure to subscribe, rate and five-star review this podcast. If you take that little action, it really helps other listeners to find us. Also, if you liked this podcast, we hope you'll share it with people that you love. And if you didn't like it, if it made you go ew, ew, ew…then you can just—

Laura Camien:
Trust that intuition.

Susan Blackwell:
Trust that intuition. Listen to another podcast. Lower the stakes.

Laura Camien:
Gong. If something lights you up and gets your creative sparks flying, we're writing you a forever permission slip to make that thing that's been knocking at your door. It's your turn to take that spark and fan it into a flame!

Susan Blackwell:
You know you gotta take it and—

Both:
Make it!

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