The Spark File with Susan Blackwell and Laura Camien
Your one stop shop for creative ideas and inspiration. Each week on The Spark File podcast, Susan Blackwell and Laura Camien reach into their spark files and share stories, ideas and fascinations to ignite your imagination. Obsessed with creativity, Blackwell and Camien also talk with artists and makers, movers and shakers who have taken the spark of inspiration and fanned it into a flame. Hear from inspiring creatives like Lin-Manuel Miranda, Sara Bareilles, Eric Stonestreet, Jonathan Groff, Julianne Moore and Bart Freundlich, Zachary Quinto, Leslie Odom Jr, Bobby Lopez and Kristen Anderson-Lopez, Billy Eichner, Celia Keenan-Bolger, Karen Olivo, Sutton Foster, Michael R. Jackson and many more about their passions and their failures, their inspirations and their aspirations. Refill your creative fish pond with new ideas and fresh perspectives. Listen, then take it and make it!
The Spark File with Susan Blackwell and Laura Camien
Them's The Rules
Every so often we hear the question: what is that “special sauce” that helps make up this “warm clan of creatives.” The truth is, a healthy culture and community requires a commitment to that mission from every single person involved. As educators, we’ve spent years learning about what conditions are most optimal for connection and community.
As creatives, we’ve spent years participating in various collaborations and configurations of people working together and noting what processes and agreements bring out the best in each individual while bringing the group together.
All of this experience led to developing our own expectations for our classrooms and workshop spaces. Enter: The Spark File Course Guidelines…A Poem.
If you’ve ever been involved in a Spark File class session—whether part of a coaching cohort, participating in a one-off workshop, or kicking off the New Year with us in creative style—you’re probably familiar with these guidelines. In this week’s episode of The Spark File podcast, we’ll take a closer look at our community’s creative roadmap. Join us as we break down the course guidelines and explore the history of this living, breathing guide. We’ll discuss the educators, thought leaders and science (yes, science!) that influenced our creation of the course guidelines, and discover the “why” behind each component.
There aren’t a lot of requirements when it comes to making things, but communal creative freedom demands that we all swim in the same direction. So, as the course guidelines say: As long as you’re present when you’re present, do the work, and aren’t being a dick, however you’re doing it, you’re doing it right. Them’s the rules!
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The Spark File Podcast Transcript
Season 5, Episode 6: Them’s The Rules
Susan Blackwell:
Welcome to The Spark File, where we believe that everyone is creative, but smart creative people don't go it alone.
Laura Camien:
I'm Laura Camien
Susan Blackwell:
And I'm Susan Blackwell, and we are creativity coaches who help people clarify and accomplish their creative goals.
Laura Camien:
Hey, you should know that just by listening to this podcast, you are joining a warm and wonderful clan of creatives.
Susan Blackwell:
But hold up. You may be asking yourself what exactly is a spark file?
Laura Camien:
Well, a spark file is a place where you consistently collect all your inspirations and fascinations. Every episode, we're going to reach into our spark files and exchange some sparks, and from time to time, we're also going to talk to some folks who spark us.
Susan Blackwell:
And your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to take some of those sparks of inspiration and make something of your own. So, without further ado, let's open up The Spark FIle. Hi, Laura Camien.
Laura Camien:
Hey! Hi Suze, I'm excited. It’s recording day!
Susan Blackwell:
It's recording day. It's recording day. Are you ready to be sparked?
Laura Camien:
I'm so ready to be sparked, I'm so intrigued and I cannot wait.
Susan Blackwell:
For those about to spark we salute you and… oh, I almost forgot. Laura Camien, you are going to help me in the course of this spark. I'm going to go ahead and put a message in the chat so you can access it.
Laura Camien:
Okay! Oh my goodness.
Susan Blackwell:
So, I'm very excited to share the spark with you. This is something we have discussed and never done. It's been one of those… You know it'd be fun one day? So at the top of almost every class we lead at the Spark File, someone reads the Spark File Course Guidelines, a poem. Now, as advertised on the label, this is a poem…I use that term loosely that summarizes the core ethos of the Spark File. It's what we stand for and what we are asking of anyone who participates in the Spark File. So, Laura, I just sent you the link to the Spark File Course Guidelines: A Poem.
Laura Camien:
I see it! I see it.
Susan Blackwell:
Would you like to read them now?
Laura Camien:
If I could get this big grin off my face, I would love to read these guidelines. I'm so happy about this, Suze, I'm so happy. All right, here are the Spark File Course Guidelines:
Hey you, the real authentic open you, welcome to the present moment and this space where you are safe to be brave, with the knowledge that all of us have your back. While you're here, please take responsibility for the energy you bring into this space. Grant grace and assume the best of yourself and others. Preface creative possibilities with, “May I offer you a thought?” and receive consent before proceeding. Know that lessons learned here can leave here, while personal stories shared here. Stay here. Creative risk lies ahead. Side effects may vary and can include responses in your body, heart, mind or behaviors. Trust in the knowledge that you are a strong creative conduit and it's all tolerable. Plus, you are empowered to do what you need to do to take care of yourself During your time here. May your conversational turn-taking be balanced and may you rest easy in the knowledge that no one is above you, no one is below you, and haters have a special place to the left. Gentle sparkler, let these truths resonate through your body electric. As long as you are present when you are present, do the work, and aren't being a dick: However, you're doing it. You're doing it right.
Susan Blackwell:
Yes, well done, Laura Camien. Thank you so much for reading that.
Laura Camien:
My pleasure.
Susan Blackwell:
Again, that was the Spark File Course Guidelines: A Poem that we share at the top of every class. That's the version as it exists today. You never know, Course Guidelines: A Aoem might change in the future.
Laura Camien:
They evolve.
Susan Blackwell:
They evolve, but that's the current version and we're here to tell you it's chock-a-block with sparks. So for my spark today, I thought it'd be fun to learn the history of the guidelines and unpack some of the key Sparks in the guidelines so folks can learn what informs those guidelines and the whole vibe of the Spark File. Yeah?
Laura Camien:
Yeah! And a lot of it is like science-backed as well. So we didn't just make all this up.
Susan Blackwell:
We're not just pulling most of this out of our butts! Some of it is backed by science and research. So let's start with the history of the guidelines. When I had been teaching for a while, I learned that it was helpful to set some ground rules at the top of each class or workshop that I led, and usually they were simple, like… you are empowered, what you need to do to take care of yourself, meaning if you need to go to the bathroom, you don't need to raise your hand and ask my permission.
Laura Camien:
That's right. You're, you know— you're free.
Susan Blackwell::
And sometimes it had to do with the subject matter. So, um, something I learned from my writing teacher, Lynda Barry, and I think it's true, if you're writing and you get tired, just put your head down. No good writing happens when you're trying to force yourself to stay awake. So that's the kind of thing I'd be like...just before we get started, I just want a few ground rules, that sort of thing. Then when Laura and I first started teaching creativity courses with the Spark File, we would share the community rules in the class. You remember this, Laura?
Laura Camien:
I do
Susan Blackwell:
In the class facebook group—a list, and we would talk through that list on the first day of class.
Laura Camien:
Like, be kind, assume the best, things like that.
Susan Blackwell:
Yeah, yep. At some point we thought you know what would be more…creative and fun and memorable? If we wove all of this into this handy dandy poem that we could read at the top of each class. So it's not something that you hear one time or you read one time and you kind of have to remember it. It's top of mind, it's on the tip of your tongue, it's very, very easy to reference, and thus the Spark File Course Guidelines: A Poem was born. So let's unpack some key phrases in there, let's do a little literary analysis, if you will. And we're going to start at the top. Laura Camien, and please, because you're all up in here, you are woven into this thing—
Laura Camien:
That's the beauty of it. You are woven into it, I'm woven into it, and so much of our Spark File community is woven into it. Yeah, I love it. I'm loving this.
Susan Blackwell:
So check me because there's things I may forget in this session of pop-up videos. Okay, so it starts with “Hey, you, the real, authentic, open you.” So this is us inviting your best self, the most authentic, open-hearted version of you, to show up. In The Spark File, so long as you are respectful of others and their boundaries, you're invited to be the real, authentic, open you. Everyone is invited to be authentic and talk about things that are more challenging or less flattering to themselves and, when framed constructively, we believe that candor and vulnerability is like a Miracle-Gro for personal and creative development.
Laura Camien:
That's right, and we wanted to also emphasize like there's so much positivity in the space that there are times when it can feel like, oh, I guess I have to put on a positive face, regardless of how I'm feeling today. And we're like…nope, we want you to be your authentic self. Now, please. If your authentic self is feeling like lashing out and being cruel to others, then no, we don't want it. But you don't have to come in and pretend that you're not feeling, um, however you're feeling that day. And that was important to us. But, please reference “As long as you're not being a dick,” like that… it’s on balance with that.
Laura Camien:
That's right.
Susan Blackwell:
So moving forward. “Welcome to the present moment and this space where you are safe to be brave, with the knowledge that all of us have your back.” So, “Welcome to the present moment and this space,” is essentially us summoning people into the present moment. As we know, our brains were built to time travel to keep us safe. Our brains are forever assessing the past and rehearsing the future, and we're inviting people to come into the present moment and this space, this gathering of people where it is safe to be brave. Now, this is a reference to something Laura learned in a class she took at Harvard, because she's fancy! Taught by a woman named Jennifer McRae, Laura was introduced to the concept of moving from safe spaces to brave spaces. Laura, will you tell us a little bit about that learning?
Laura Camien:
Absolutely. This kind of blew my mind because at the time there was a lot of talk, and probably still is, about creating a safe space in classrooms, in workshops, in the office.
Susan Blackwell:
In work environments.
Laura Camien:
And what they had learned. And, Suze, you're going to need to remind me of the author's names for this paper.
Susan Blackwell:
You got it. It's Brian Arao and Christy Clements and the name of the paper, and it's a white paper titled “From Safe Spaces to Brave Spaces: A New Way to Frame Dialogue Around Diversity and Social Justice.”
Laura Camien:
Loved it so much. Incredible work, incredible work, and they, what they had discovered, is that when you, uh, consistently refer to the space as safe, Mm-hmm. Everyone set up an expectation that they would never be asked to feel discomfort.
Susan Blackwell:
Yeah.
Laura Camien: 11:54
Meaning it's a safe space. I can say what I like. Well, if I may say something that makes you feel uncomfortable, or you may say something that makes me feel uncomfortable, and they had conflated the idea of safety with comfort, and we are very specifically working in a space where the very act of taking a creative risk, which we'll talk about more in a minute, brings a sense of discomfort. If you are stepping outside of your comfort zone and taking a risk, making yourself vulnerable, you are safe to do so, but really, what we're asking you to do is to be brave. And so what the authors of this paper kept emphasizing is that what we're really looking for is bravery, and we want to create a brave space where people feel brave enough to hang with the discomfort that they may feel. Hang in there, you may learn something. You may disagree with someone, that is okay. That's not going to hurt you, and taking a risk or making yourself vulnerable is not going to hurt you. And so we combine them to say this is a space where it is safe to be brave.
Susan Blackwell:
Yeah. That was beautifully put, Laura, and it's so true. Here at the Spark File, we know that growth, creative or otherwise, can't happen without learning to accept a certain amount of discomfort. Embracing the discomfort, dare we say and creating and sharing our work requires that vulnerability. It requires us to be brave. So within the group, as Laura said, we ask folks to be brave. Whether you are staring down a blank page or a blank canvas or a creativity share. We're asking people to be brave when you're sharing your work and receiving that feedback. When we have guest teachers and they do things a little differently than Susan and Laura do them, when new members join, we're asking people to be brave with the knowledge that we've got your back more on that in just a second. But…that's what it takes to show up and do the work and show up and share the work.
Laura Camien:
That's right, and I think we would both, you know, probably make a case for taking any class or being involved in any group where you don't feel challenged, you don't ever feel vulnerable and you never feel discomfort. You may not be learning as much as you'd like to be learning, or growing as much as you'd like to be learning, or growing as much as you'd like to grow.
Susan Blackwell::
Yes, yes! So that passage ends with “Where you are safe to be brave, with the knowledge that all of us have your back.” That's a term, “Have your back, we've got your back,” that's a term borrowed from the world of improv, and it might mean if you take a risk in this space, I'm going to provide a soft place for you to land. Or it might mean, if I have a resource you're seeking, I'm going to share it with you. The old, I got your back.
Laura Camien:
Yep, and I'm not going to let you fall on your face. I'm just not going to, so that old like…if you're standing on stage and you, you loft a joke out there that does not land. I'm not going to leave you there just looking at you like we're going to move on together.
Susan Blackwell:
Eggie with egg on your face.
Laura Camien:
Yeah, not going to happen.
Susan Blackwell:
Not going to leave you, Eggie. So, moving on, “While you are here, please take responsibility for the energy you bring into this space.” This idea of taking responsibility for the energy you bring into a space is inspired by the work of Dr Jill Bolte Taylor, who you may have heard me talk about on this very podcast before. Dr Bolte Taylor is a neuroanatomist, an author and a speaker who delivered a very, very popular, wonderful TEDTalk in 2008 in which she told the story of how she suffered a stroke and, because she was a neuroanatomist, she was able to lucidly perceive and document the experience. When she was recovering in the hospital as a result of her brain injury and the subsequent surgery, she was extremely emotionally open, so open, in fact, that she would empathically, viscerally, pick up on the energy of anyone who entered the room: doctors, nurses, visitors to the point where she had a sign put up that said please take responsibility for the energy you bring into the space. In the Spark File, starting with Laura Camien over there and little Susie Blackwell over here, we are extremely perceptive, we are open people, as are many of our clients, and we want our spaces, our cohorts, our workshops to be filled with people who have the emotional and social intelligence to manage their energy and do what they need to do to, if their nervous systems are dysregulated, to be able to say “My nervous system is dysregulated,” instead of like lashing out, et cetera. So thus, please take responsibility for the energy you bring into this space.
Laura Camien:
One of my favorites.
Susan Blackwell:
Next up in the poem is “Grant grace and assume the best of yourself and others.” This is a two-parter. The first part, “Grant grace,” grew out of conversations I had with spark-filer Scott Barnhart. Hi Scott, what are you doing Walking your dog? Listening to this? Going for a run? What are you doing, Scott? You feel seen? Do you feel violated? So, Scott Barnhart, during the pandemic, we were collaborating together on something and all of us during the pandemic were really…We were working off road, we were adapting to new and sometimes extreme circumstances and we were all navigating really steep learning curves. And Scott would say “Grant grace, we gotta grant grace,” and I was like…noted. Grant grace.
Laura Camien:
And what a way to live. What a way to live.
Susan Blackwell:
Also a great drag king name.
Laura Camien:
Laughs
Susan Blackwell:
The second part of that phrase “Assume the best of yourself and others,” grew out of my tendency—a human tendency, I think—to make up the worst possible stories and narratives, like if someone you know a look passes over someone's face I'm like… they're mad at me. I did something to make them mad. So it reminds me/us that we are going to assume the best of ourselves and others, not the worst.
Laura Camien:
That's right, yeah.
Susan Blackwell:
And it's not just about others. It's about assuming the best of yourself. Assume the best of yourself, which … I mean, I am so tough on myself and so kind of it's a shorthand for saying “Don't make yourself wrong all the time.” All of this is like…choose a different neural pathway, choose a different narrative. So, grant grace and assume the best of yourself and others.
Laura Camien:
That’s right.
Susan Blackwell:
Next up, “Preface creative possibilities with ‘May I offer you a thought?’ and receive consent before proceeding.” This harkens back to the Spark File feedback process, which is a very artist-centered feedback process, where the artist states the feedback they are seeking. We don't just see someone's work and then start noting them to death and telling them how we think they should do their piece.
Laura Camien:
Oh no.
Susan Blackwell:
We address the feedback that they are seeking and, super bonus, we ask consent before we start sharing our two cents. And people are welcome to say “No, thank you. I'm not open to that type of feedback at this time.”
Laura Camien:
That's right.
Susan Blackwell:
They can decide if it's right for them or not.
Laura Camien:
This is such a great rule for life in general. Like, oh gosh, I'm not going to remember this correctly, but a few like, a year or two back, there was a thing going around on Instagram that was basically about like, when your partner or someone starts talking to you, ask them like are you looking for sympathy or are you looking for ideas?
Susan Blackwell:
Sympathy, solutions or solutions.
Laura Camien:
That's right Sympathy or solutions. And the power of that is stopping to ask like is this what you need right now? May I offer, you know, are you open to receiving solutions? And the person gets to say actually “No, right now. I just want you to listen because I just need to cry this out,” and that's perfectly acceptable. And it's a very similar idea here that, like before I offer you some idea about your main character or some idea about your performance, I check to see is this, is this what you're looking for in this moment? And you get to say yay or nay.
Susan Blackwell:
Yeah, consent.
Laura Camien:
Consent. It's a powerful thing.
Susan Blackwell:
It's what's for dinner! Laughs. Next up, “know that lessons learned here can leave here, while personal stories shared here stay here.” Laura, I wish I could tell you where I first heard this. I know it was from a teacher. Was it from you?
Laura Camien:
It was from me.
Susan Blackwell:
You are a teacher.
Laura Camien:
I took a class, um, it was a DEI workshop that was phenomenal and they phrased it a little different, like this has a Spark File phrasing to it, but essentially they were like “Anything you learn here can leave with you, but stories that you hear from other people stay here.” And so we made that. Lessons learned here can leave here while personal stories shared here stay here.
Susan Blackwell:
This I appreciate so much. I used to do this with every writing class I taught, I would do this very involved confidentiality pact with the room and this is so much more efficient and elegant and people understand it immediately. So you were the teacher, Laura. You were the teacher I learned this from and you learned it from an awesome DEI workshop.
Laura Camien:
That's correct. And boy do I wish I could remember the name of the teacher I learned it from. It is not…Thank you teacher. Thank you. Thank you, teacher. I apologize, but yeah, I remember the work done in that room and it was fantastic.
Susan Blackwell:
Fantastic. Okay, next up, “Creative risk lies ahead. Side effects may vary and can include responses in your body, heart, mind or behaviors. Trust in the knowledge that you are a strong creative conduit and it's all tolerable.” So this is just like a tip of the hat to a prescription medication commercial. But also it's our concise reminder that creative risk may come with feelings attached. You may experience it as a visceral feeling, your palms may start sweating. You may experience it emotionally. You might be like, oh, I don't know why, I feel sort of cranky now. Your mind might start racing or it might flatline or you may want to crawl under the quilt. So that's body, heart, mind, behaviors. But that reminder that we are strong creative conduits and it's all tolerable. We are strong creative conduits–these things can move through us like a storm cloud, moving in across the sky, dropping some rain and moving it on, and it is tolerable. A fellow teacher reminded me recently that sometimes it's not tolerable. It can become too overwhelming and our systems can feel too dysregulated, which leads to our next sentiment: “You are empowered to do what you need to do to take care of yourself,” which is to say, you get to decide your path forward and what you need to do to take care of yourself. Do you need to step outside the room? Do you need to turn your camera off? Do you need a drink of water? Cool. Do what you need to do to take care of yourself. Anything about that, Laura?
Laura Camien:
I do. I'm going to say about the tolerability and the creative risk. We have curriculum on this that we know we could talk for two hours on this very concept right here. It's a nice reminder in the weekly reading of the guidelines, just to harken back to this idea that part of what we're doing in the Spark File is building that muscle. The understanding of knowing every time when I take a creative risk, I can start to observe what happens in my mind, my heart, my body, my behaviors. It may not be the same every time, depending on what's at stake and the level of the risk, but what we're learning by repeatedly taking a risk is that we can handle it. We can actually take a step up next time. We can go a bit higher, we can level up in our what we call our “Guggenheim spiral of growth,”
Susan Blackwell:
Thank you, Melissa Moschitto.
Laura Camien:
And, um, and in that way you know if it's not tolerable, maybe it was too big of a leap in that moment, it was too big of a jump for you on that particular day. But by training ourselves gently just like an athlete trains themselves over and over using that muscle you can learn that it's all tolerable. And then, as Susan said, if it's not feeling good to you today, you are empowered to do what you need to do to take care of yourself. I love it and I stand by it
Susan Blackwell:
Stamp of approval. Excellent, moving forward, “During your time here, may your conversational turn taking be balanced.” So this is a direct reference to the work that Google did on “Project Aristotle.” This is a study that they conducted. It was some real intense research to determine why some of their teams and their groups absolutely thrived and some did not, and what they discovered is there are two major factors that determine the quality of a team If they are able to engage in balanced conversational turn-taking, meaning every member of the group speaks roughly the same amount, and if they are able to co-create an environment of psychological safety. This entire guideline is about creating psychological safety, but “May your conversational turn-taking be balanced” is our way of reminding people of that part of it.
Laura Camien:
Absolutely, and that's how we yes, we remind people every time that we keep the, I guess, the oxygen in the room. It gets to be shared by everyone and no one gets to take it all. Yeah.
Susan Blackwell:
Oh, and also don't hide. Like, step forward, step back. In addition to making space for other people to speak. Also, if you have a tendency kind of like I do, even though I have a podcast, I don't know…to be kind of quiet and only speak in a class when you're absolutely certain that what you have to say is relevant, and clearly stated, et cetera. Step forward, Step forward. So balanced conversational turn-taking. The poem continues “and may you rest easy in the knowledge that no one is above you, no one is below you and haters have a special place to the left.”
Laura Camien:
Fan favorite.
Susan Blackwell:
Fan favorite. This is my own philosophy that I snuck in here. There is no doubt that we live in a hierarchical world. If you have any doubt, book an acting gig on a TV show or a film and look at the call sheet. Essentially, the call sheet is a schedule for the day and it ranks every actor from number one the biggest star on down the line two, three, four, five, one-hundred and fifty seven. I find I move through the world with more peace and confidence when I carry this in my heart and in my mind. “No one is above me, no one is below me. Haters have a special place to the left.” So haters, meaning super negative people, destructive people, they can fuck off. They can fuck off…straight off the bat. Everyone else, everyone else: No one is above me, no one is below me. In my heart, we are all on equal footing: the movie star, the teenager I met on the Amtrak train, the server at a restaurant, the teacher, the student, the mayor, me. It's a really fun way to move through the world. If you've never tried this, I highly recommend it, and we ask our clients to meet every other fellow group member as a peer, and us, frankly, and us and us.
Laura Camien:
That's right, we're not looking to be put on a pedestal. I love it so much and I love how it changes the dynamic for people, because sometimes people look around or you might join the class, look around and be like… Oh my God, there's a Tony winner, there's an Emmy winner. Look at that. That person has a thousand awards behind them or a thousand shows behind them, and it's a reminder that that person is not higher than you. They may be here trying to have a beginner's mind and try something totally new and maybe they're scared shitless. And they feel the same things that you feel, and it's a great equalizer. We are all human beings just trying to make our way and express ourselves with our various art forms.
Susan Blackwell:
Yeah. So this is fun to play with in the Spark File, outside of The Spark File, to avoid subordinating yourself, comparing yourself positively or negatively. Every member of the Spark File, including you listener, is really a spectacular person and while people may be at different places in their creative and professional journeys, all of the people in the Spark File have something in common. They are all there to take big creative swings, like Laura just said, maybe it's somebody who is super accomplished, but they're trying something new. All of that requires risk. All of it requires vulnerability and a lot of hard work. So remember: Nobody's above you, Nobody's below you. Haters to the left.
Laura Camien:
Love it.
Susan Blackwell:
Getting close to the end now. “Gentle sparkler, let these truths resonate through your body electric.” That's just a little tip of the hat to Walt Whitman and a little tip of the hat to a song from the movie FAME. Remember that, kids? “As long as you are present when you are present, do the work, and aren't being a dick: however, you're doing it, you're doing it right.” So the creative process can be slippery. So the creative process can be slippery, unwieldy, mysterious. Assessments of creative work are almost always entirely subjective, and quality is in the eye of the beholder. But what if? What if? Let's try this on–what if showing up, being in the present moment, doing the work of engaging with your creative practice, whatever form it takes that day, and being a decent person–what if that were enough? What if checking those boxes meant you were creating correctly, and doing it right? How would we feel? How would we feel about that, and how much more work, creative work might we get done if we believe that? So them's the rules, Laura Camien. And that's me spark.
Laura Camien:
I love this spark. This was really fun. It's a great reminder digging into what's behind all of it. It's a lot of thought, it's a lot of heart and even some science.
Susan Blackwell:
And even a little bit of science. So that’s it.
Laura Camien:
Well done!
Susan Blackwell:
Thanks, Laura. This episode of the Spark File was made on the lands of the Lenape and the Mohican people and, as always, we hope that this put another bunch of sparks in your file. Listen to us: If there's a spark you'd like us to explore, or if you'd like to learn more about how to coach with us to accomplish your creative goals, you can email us at getcreative @ thesparkfile . com or reach us through our website, thesparkfile. com.
Laura Camien:
We'll even happily take your feedback, but you know the price of admission: First you've got to share a creative risk that you have taken recently.
Susan Blackwell:
You can follow us on social @the sparkfile and be sure to subscribe to rate to five-star review this podcast. If you just take a few seconds to do that, it really does help other listeners to find us. Also, if you like this podcast, we hope you'll share it with people that you love, and if you didn't like it, there's a special place to the left for you, my friend.
Laura Camien:
If something lights you up and gets your creative sparks flying, we are writing you a forever permission slip to make that thing that's been knocking at your door. It's your turn to take that spark and fan it into a flame.
Susan Blackwell:
You know you gotta take it and make it!