WWGD? (Learning from Gavin Creel)

As we grieve the loss of our dear friend Gavin Creel, Susan called out for memories, wisdom, and lessons learned from Gavin, and we were touched by the outpouring of love from all across the globe. In this week’s episode, titled “WWGD? (Learning from Gavin Creel)," we hear from people who learned something from Gavin over the years—in rehearsal halls or classrooms, in nature, and on a city rooftop. We gathered all the light that Gavin reflected onto others and put it together so that we could, collectively, feel the warmth of its glow.

We heard from so many people—award-winning actors, composers, producers, directors; Gavin’s colleagues in the theater, in activism, and in philanthropy; his classmates, students, partners, friends; and fans from all across the globe—who shared the innumerable ways in which Gavin positively impacted them. We heard the wisdom Gavin shared about artistry and creation, openness, activism, love, and all things life. As we share this collective loss, we hope this episode can serve as a reminder for all of us to embody those qualities that made Gavin so remarkable.

You can listen to all these lessons and more on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and directly on our website.​ You can also learn more about Gavin, in his own words, in Season 1, Episode 21: Gavin Creel: Creative Sponges and Meaningful Relationships. And, If you’d like to honor Gavin’s memory, his family has asked that donations be made to Broadway Cares/Equity Fights Aids in his name.

BRAVE Creatives! Your creative work is needed now more than ever. 

Join us for The Spark File 2025 New Year Creativity Kickoff

January 1, 2025 from 11am - 6:30pm ET

This one day virtual retreat will help identify and clarify your creative vision, and chart a course for completion.

LEARN MORE 

Chapters

• 0:00 The Spark File Podcast Tribute
• 6:41 What Would Gavin Do?
• 18:21 Gavin Creel's Impact on Broadway
• 31:31 Embracing Self-Acceptance Through Love
• 44:10 Gavin Creel's Creative Inspiration

Transcript

The Spark File Podcast Transcript
Season 5, Episode 3: WWGD? (Learning from Gavin Creel)

Susan Blackwell
Welcome to The Spark File, where we believe that everyone is creative, but smart creative people don't go it alone. 

Laura Camien
I'm Laura Camien.

Susan Blackwell
And I'm Susan Blackwell. And we are creativity coaches who help people clarify and accomplish their creative goals. 

Laura Camien
Hey, you should know that just by listening to this podcast, you are joining a warm and wonderful clan of creatives.

Susan Blackwell
But hold up! You may be asking yourself what exactly is a spark file? 

Laura Camien
A spark file is a place where you consistently collect all your inspirations and fascinations. Every single episode we're going to reach into our spark files and we're going to exchange some sparks, and from time to time we're going to talk to some folks who spark us too. 

Susan Blackwell
And your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to take some of those sparks of inspiration and make something of your own. So, without further ado, let's open up The Spark File. Hi, Laura.

Laura Camien
Hello, Susan.

Susan Blackwell
Laura, I’ve got a big, bountiful spark for you today.

Laura Camien
I am so excited for this spark.

Susan Blackwell
Let’s just dive right in.

Laura Camien
Okay!

Susan Blackwell
So, as many of you know, our dear friend Gavin Creel passed away recently, at the age of 48. Gavin was, to quote Hunter Bell, a “special noodle,” as evidenced by the outpouring of love towards him.

Laura Camien
Ooh, yup.

Susan Blackwell
We were speaking with Spark Filer, Broadway producer, founder of ARS Nova, Jenny Steingart, and she remarked: I’ve never seen such an outpouring of love for a member of our community. And it really is a testament to the magnitude of the loss we’re experiencing and a life well lived. What a legacy.

Laura Camien
Oh, the legacy of how many lives he touched.

Susan Blackwell
Yeah! So, in addition to being a world-class talent, and an extremely gifted teacher, Gavin was an incredibly vibrant person, so it’s extremely difficult to imagine that his life, in the embodied form of Gavin Creel, is done. But I recently learned from Laura Camien’s spark on Grief & Creativity that I could use my creativity to process this profound loss. 

Laura Camien
Yes!

Susan Blackwell:
I am, according to Meta Wagner’s 5 Creative Types—Hi Meta! - a sensitive soul: I use writing and sharing to order my lived experience, to get my arms around it, to see what shape it takes and what meaning I want to ascribe to it, and then to hopefully be of service to others who may be going through it. So what I decided to make of it was this podcast episode… I may make something else out of this, but right now, first draft, it’s gonna take the form of this podcast episode.

Laura Camien:
And what a gift to us, what a gift to all of us, Suze.

Susan Blackwell:
Fingers crossed. So, I want to dedicate this episode to the people who loved and lost Gavin, especially those folks who cared for him in his final days. Laura, you know my favorite quote of all time, from our homeboy Ram Dass, “We are all just walking each other home.” So I want to dedicate this, and I want to thank those who walked Gavin home. For this episode, in addition to contacting some folks who knew Gavin directly, I put out a call on social media that read: 

“Along with so many, I am grieving the loss of our beloved Gavin Creel. On the advice of the wise Laura Camien, I am processing my grief using my creativity, putting together an episode of our podcast sharing some of the sparks of wisdom I learned from Gavin over the years. For example, I learned the concept of ‘Hold on tightly, let go lightly’ from Gavin—”

Which, I think he was actually talking to a lot of performers about really committing to something, but when it’s time to let it go, let it go… But it’s actually a great lesson to lean on now, as I process his transition from human-light into actual light. I asked the people of social media:

Did you learn something from Gavin in a rehearsal hall, classroom, boardroom, a theatre, or in a lake? Did you learn something at a stage door or a party? On a street corner or a rooftop? Please leave a comment or DM with any Gavin wisdom you'd be willing to share with me (and thus, all of you podcast listeners). And I said they could remain anonymous, or I could cite my source.”

I concluded:
Thank you to everyone for sharing your stories, pictures, and videos about Gavin. It's the next best thing to having more time with him.

So, friend of the pod and one of Gavin’s friends and collaborators, Angela Johnson commented:


“You’re right Susan, he transitioned from human light to actual light. It’s really hard. Can’t say I’m processing it the best. Am really sad. Trying.”


So, I had just watched the recording of a special class that Gavin had done with our ILLUME group, just at the end of 2023, so I wrote back: 
“My sweet Angela Johnson, I think we have to ask ourselves, WWGD? And you know what I think he’d say? Breathe and be present to all of it. Don’t race to skip over the hard parts.”


And Angela wrote back:
“WWGD? Amen. Here’s to eternal love.”

So, I’m titling this episode of the podcast, “WWGD?”… short for What Would Gavin Do? And I’m going to share some of the wisdom that we collectively absorbed from Gavin Creel, as a performer, a teacher, and a human. Essentially, I want to explore what made that noodle so special. And, I share all of this with the caveat that Gavin was a whole, dimensional person who contained multitudes. And I’m just gonna be scratching the surface today. And also, I couldn’t include everything that everyone shared because it was just like an avalanche of love, but I’m so grateful for everyone who reached back. So, shall we get into it?

Laura Camien
What a gift. Susan, I just have to say, your process of healing is helping others to heal, and it’s just such a beautiful thing. I’m grateful to be a part of it.

Susan Blackwell
Thanks, Laura Camien! I really hope that this helps, whether it's your healing or your growth– I really do believe that’s what Gavin would have wanted. So, a few things began to emerge, the first, being present.

Juliet Gray, who worked closely with Gavin at The Performing Arts Project, shared: “What I learned from Gavin over our years together was to be present in the moment. He had a genuine way of making people feel seen. When he spoke to you, it felt as if you were the only person in the room. Nothing else mattered. He was so curious about life and learning, so open, and always striving to improve himself so he could give more to his fellow humans.”

Jared Marshek Gertner, who co-starred with Gavin in The Book of Mormon on the first national tour and London’s West End shared:  “Anyone who ever met Gav knew that when he would talk to you, he would make you feel like you were the only two people in the world. This was one of his many many gifts.” 

And Laura Camien, you can attest! That Gavin Creel… present.

Laura Camien
Present, willing to go deep with you, see you, and I think you’re going to get into more of this, but it was for anyone and everyone, it didn’t feel like—

Susan Blackwell
Yep, we are going to get more into this

Laura Camien
It didn’t feel like it was reserved for “Specials…”

Susan Blackwell:
Ha! Specials. We call ‘em specials. I think Tina Fey made that up.

Laura Camien
Oh, really?

Susan Blackwell: 
Uh huh! Now, I feel that his present-ness was coupled with his curiosity.

Juliet Gray, again from the Performing Arts Project, shared: “I saw him lean in to people from all walks of life, giving so generously of his time and space, asking questions about their lives, offering ways to help them with whatever they were facing, sometimes even moments before he had to teach, catch a flight, face a crowd, or even perform. He truly, authentically cared so deeply about others.

So, there’s something about that present-ness coupled with that curiosity. I think there was a real—it really was part of that Gavin Creel recipe. Now, I want to share some things that people shared about being an artist…being a performer. Here’s some wisdom that people collected from Gavin on that topic.

Sabrina Mangone—Sabrina, I apologize if I’m mispronouncing your last name. But, Sabrina shared: “During one of the classes I took with him, he said ‘Find your ideas in the sky…there’s nothing interesting on the floor’” Spring awakening

Sabrina says, “I still think about that all the time,” and I was like… what great advice for a performer! Find your ideas in the sky!

Kate Herlihy, who attended TPAP shared something she had learned from Gavin: “Great art is made in a mess. a lotus blooms in mud.” Which we love.

Macy Mateer shared something Gavin shared across a cafeteria table at The Performing Arts Project: “The safest place to be is all the way in.”

Laura Camien
Wow

Susan Blackwell
Yeah, buckle up, everybody. They only get richer.

Laura Camien
These are gems! Yes.

Susan Blackwell:
Sarah Dreben shared that she was present in a class Gavin taught on auditioning. And Gavin said, “Auditioning should be approached like throwing a party. Own the room and warmly make those in the room feel welcome, comfortable and relaxed, as if they’re your guests.” Sarah said, “I apply that to any performance. 15 years later, I still have a ritual to be reminded to ‘throw the party’ every single time I perform.” I thought that was brilliant.

The beautiful Molly Hager—Broadway’s Molly Hager, said that during a conversation about mutual feelings of imposter syndrome, Gavin texted. “This is happening to exactly the right person. YOU. And you don't have to pay for it. It is yours and you can hold it fully with deserving ownership.” Molly said, “I try to remember that anytime I’m not feeling worthy. Goes along with something else he used to say which was ‘If it’s meant for you, you can’t miss it.’”

And this is something I heard from several people! Heidi Blickenstaff shared something Gavin had said to her: “If it’s meant for you, you can’t miss it.” He also said—took her by the shoulders and said “You’re Heidi Mother-Fucking-Blickenstaff” and she said “Sometimes even I can’t fully embody it, but I almost believed it when Gavin said it to me.”

Kevin Forestell shared that Gavin had taught him “It’s okay to want something badly enough to feel hurt when it doesn’t happen for you.” I’m going to say that again because I think it’s fuckin’ rad. “It’s okay to want something badly enough to feel hurt when it doesn’t happen for you.” But, “That you can’t miss what’s meant for you.” Thank you for that, Kevin.

Laura Camien
Oh, this is great!

Susan Blackwell
Cara Picone said, “He came to NYU while I was there to do a master class, and it honestly just felt like he was hanging out with us more than anything. But he introduced me/us to the phrase ‘Other people’s successes are not your failures,’ and he taught us about putting blinders on to not compare yourself to others.” Holly Kelly shared: “Gavin’s number one piece of advice to students was ‘Go to therapy.’ He is the reason I pursued finding a therapist.”

Laura Camien
Yes!

Susan Blackwell
And now, I’d love to share something from the wonderful Broadway, film, television actor, Suze Misner.

Suze Misner (audio clip)
I heard Julia Armand say one time that she does not act for the camera, she acts for the universe. And, I think that’s really applicable for Gav, deeply so, because I think he was always in search of something bigger than himself. When he would collaborate he would model what it is to dig deep inside of yourself and wrestle with the darkest parts of yourself and get curious about them. And then push the boundaries of who you think you are and inspire his collaborators to do the same so that he could meet them in the middle and make something bigger than both of them. Um, and he did the same with his students. There was no one better at meeting a student where they were and saying “I see you,” and “Yes, and” and “What’s more? How much more of there is you?” So that we can make something so big that it would be for the universe, because I do think that was deeply important to Gav, and he did it, for his friends, too. Whether that was through humor, or—um, lots of humor, or silence, or connecting in nature, or cooking, he was constantly looking for that cord that connected us to the largest parts of ourselves. And then he had the courage to share it, and I think that is an extraordinary thing. So, that’s one thing that I learned and will continue to carry forever more. A person who did not miss it, and lived so profoundly consciously. Alright, I love you girl.

Musical Interlude

Susan Blackwell
Now I’d like to talk about how Gavin lived and modeled showing up for others. Now I told you how I let Gavin know I was doing that musical and how I was doing my best with the singing, and he wrote back this beautiful, beautiful email about how, about my singing, and I was like… Gavin, I’m going to tape that to my dressing room mirror, and like three days later there was a lifetime supply of scotch tape on my doorstep.

Laura Camien
I love that story. Love it.

Susan Blackwell
But I want to share a few more stories. Julie Garnyé shared a story about how she'd been in New York for about a year and Seth Rudetsky asked her to be in the ensemble for the Actors Fund benefit concert of the show Hair. It was a one night only benefit at the beautiful New Amsterdam theater. The cast was incredible, including Idina Menzel, Raul Esparza, Gavin was in it, RuPaul was in it. And Idina had just won the Tony award for playing Elphaba. And Idina was meant to be singing the eleven o’clock number, which was “Walking in Space,” and the ensemble was gonna be singing behind her, and and then the dance ensemble was going to be taking all their clothes off while being lowered into the Into the pit on a hydraulic lift—I meant it was going to be a big, smokin’ production number. So a couple days before they were gonna do it Seth asked if Julie wouldn't mind just taking a look at the song because Idina hadn't shown up to any rehearsals because she was shooting a TV show—she was not a flake, she was shooting a TV show at the time and she was very busy, and so she didn't come to any rehearsals. And so Seth was like…just take a look at it just in case she gets stuck on set. And Julie was like “I Just don’t think it's gonna happen.” And they had the orchestra rehearsal that afternoon and Julie didn’t sing it with the orchestra, thinking she's probably shooting right now…she’ll probably be here by the evening. And then Julie went out to dinner with a few people and when she  came back to the theater Seth and the choreographer, Christopher Gatelli, were like…you’re going on. She's not coming, you're going on. And Julie had to learn the song and had to take a little break to have a panic attack. So she’s having this panic attack and Gavin and Annie Golden, and Raul Esparza kind of came up to her and were trying to calm her down, and she was fucking freaked out. And Gavin was like…you’re gonna be okay. And he was like “Let’s run!” and she was like…what? And he said “Let’s run.” And they ran up and down flights and flights of stairs until Julie was knocked out of her panic attack, laughing, and essentially Gavin had helped her to get out of her own way.

Laura Camien
Yes!

Susan Blackwell
So there he was with that twinkle in his eye, she’s out of breath, feeling 1000 times better and he said, “See, you just had to get out of your own way.” Julia said, “I was a no name. I didn't even have an agent. I  had nothing. And this is something I’ve taken with me my whole career—getting out of your own way and just living with it.”

Laura Camien
Wow

Susan Blackwell
Thank you for that story, Julie. And now, another story about how he stepped up for others, courtesy of Beanie Feldstein.

Beanie Feldstein (Audio)
Hi Susan, it’s Beanie. I hope you can hear me, I’m in midtown. Um, I think Gavin taught me every second of every day. He was a pillar in our community, in our company, in my heart. In my life. Um, but the thing that comes to mind most with Gavin is really fucking showing up for people in action, um, our first couple weeks of rehearsal I’d had a really tough day, just felt really beaten down, like I didn’t know if I could do that. And Gavin could clearly see that. He didn’t say anything, but I could feel it because he was so intuitive. And he came up to me, he grabbed my hand, he said “I’m walking you home…where do you live, I’m walking you home?” And he walked me all the way home and in that time we had a conversation that I will cherish every minute of my life, but it was the being unafraid to see that someone needs something and just jumping in. I think so often in grief, in life, in pain, in all of it we’re afraid to say the wrong thing, afraid to do the wrong thing, and it just leads to inaction. And Gavin was the opposite of that. He always jumped in, he always sought out to help someone, and he wasn’t afraid to just try to help. And he always succeeded but I think in this life we’re so often afraid of the wrong thing that we just don’t do anything, and I am hoping and pleading and trying to carry his unbelievable intuition of when to help people for the rest of my life.

Musical Interlude

Susan Blackwell
Alright, here’s another piece of the Gavin Creel recipe that I think is really important. That activism. Let’s talk about that activism.

Laura Camien
Wow, yeah.

Susan Blackwell
So, Paul Oakley Stovall wrote:

“Here’s what I learned from Gavin. I was guest editor at large on the premiere issue of the short lived magazine.  It was a monumental task and I made sure EVERYONE around me knew how “hard I was working and how important this work was!” The issue of being an OUT actor was in the news a lot in those days. Would it kill your career? Would you ever be able to believably play a straight character? So I got this idea to do a cheeky photo shoot with “Out” actors in iconically Heteronormative theater roles. We needed a Stanley Kowalski from Streetcar. Gavin had recently come out professionally and I went after him. And he did it. What he also did, when he showed up to the photo shoot, was quietly and simply disarm me… with his preparedness, kindness and humor. He taught me that your activism can be quiet and powerful. Get to the point and keep it moving. Don’t shine a light on what you’re doing. Just do it. And for God’s sake, have fun!!”

Jen Waldman, the great NY Acting teacher and activist shared: “One thing I learned from Gavin: ‘Nothing’s a problem and everything is possible.’” So Gavin, along with Rory O’Malley and Jenny Kanelos, had just started Broadway Impact and was partnering with Jen’s group For Good Productions on a benefit. It was a massive undertaking at the Gershwin with 300 performers on stage. And Jen said, “Gavin was calmness amidst the chaos, and his whole vibe was ‘Nothing’s a problem and everything is possible’.” So, consider tucking that into your activism.

Laura Camien
I love that. Ugh!

Susan Blackwell
Another, I think, really, really, really important part of Gavin and his wisdom is—these are my words, but he really embodied a “No one is above me, no one is below me” approach to people. A non-hierarchical approach to people. 

Again, Jared Marshek Gertner said:

“Gavin and I led the 1st National company and London company of The Book of Mormon. I say “led the company” because that is what I learned from him. How to truly LEAD. He walked around the building before every performance to make sure he connected with everyone before the show started. He brought ONLY positive energy to the building every day. He made sure that EVERYONE in the building felt seen and respected…. Gav would check in with front of house staff, with the crew, with management, with musicians. And he brought me along for all of this. Letting me lead with him. Guiding the way for me so that I could become a better version of myself and the co-leader that the company needed. Unselfishly sharing the spotlight and the love. I will never be ok with him being gone, but I carry him with me in EVERYTHING I do.

Laura Camien
That brings me back to the first one! Like so many of these—I see being so present for other people, that you’re not making everything about yourself. 

Susan Blackwell
Laura, yes.

Laura Camien
You know, the star of the show, you can be that—you know, I’m here, the show can’t go on because I’m the most important person in the space and he behaved the opposite:

Susan Blackwell
Yeah, yeah. Marya Grandy co-signs on this. Marya Grandy, great, great performer, great vocalist, great member of The Spark File. Marya toured with Gavin on Into the Woods and she shared: 

Something we bonded over: It was important to both of us to learn everybody's names on every show that we did, and not just the cast and not just the creative team, but every single member of the crew. And Gavin also did that in every touring house that we were in. Gavin made a point of learning everybody's name and referring to them by name as often as possible. It's such a small kindness. But it is so humane and affirming and that's one thing that we shared, that sense of like everybody is worth having their names said to them correctly.

Thank you for that, Marya.

Laura Camien
Yes, yes, yes.

Susan Blackwell
Another really, really important part of Gavin was his playfulness. Deborah Craig described Gavin as “a hot golden retriever puppy, just full of zest and life, a little wild.” He really was, and really playful. And Kate Baldwin, shared these words.

Musical Interlude

Kate Baldwin (Audio)
Gavin and I had an agreement during Hello, Dolly, in case we lost our lyrics or failed to make an entrance or got sick, that we would have each other’s back and we would say the words or sing for our partner or the other person. And lo-and-behold, that happened. Um, during our only duet, at the end of the show, called “It Only Takes a Moment”, which is such a beautiful, beautiful song. During one matinee, my voice just decided to leave. And, he sang both his part and my part! While I just stood there leaking out of my downstage eye. And I just stood there crying as he brushed the tear out of my face. And I was so, uh, I was pretending I wasn’t sick but I was really sick and sort of powering through, and he knew, and I went home after the show and my understudy, the lovely, lovely Analisa Leaming went on for the evening show. But that moment of him just looking at me, understanding, nodding, and saying I got you… and miraculously, somehow, singing both parts. I don’t know how he did it, but he did. He sang both parts. Laughter. And then treating me with such delicate kindness in that moment. Um, and not being scared. And just being brave and holding my hand. Amazing. Then, there was another moment, uh, where something similar could have happened and yet it didn’t. When Bernadette Peters came into the show as a replacement for Bette Midler, uh, we had rehearsals with her and then a put-in, and then, um, which feels odd to say that you put Bernadette Peters into the show, which is weird. But, when we got to our very first performance, I was having an out of body experience because I was, uh, onstage with Bernadette Peters, this person who was my idol, and all of a sudden my, my spirit left my body, because I realized I was onstage with my childhood idol and I froze. And she—there was a bit of blocking where she put her hands on my shoulders and she turned me toward Gavin and I was to sing my line in the song “Dancing” and I forgot my words, because Bernadette Peters had touched me on my shoulders. It sounds lame, but I hope you can relate. So, I just, I sang gibberish. I just went gibberish. And he—his eyebrows went into his hairline, and he, the ray of joy that came out of his face because I was going up. Laughter. It was infectious, he was giggling so hard, and he did not honor our agreement and come in with my words because he was laughing too hard at me. And we all laughed. Um, I love you. Okay, thanks, Susan. Bye.

Susan Blackwell
Thank you so much for that, Kate. When we’re talking about Gavin Creel, and we’re talking about Gavin Creel’s wisdom, we have to talk about the power of self acceptance. Luke Witt wrote:

“When I was in my teens years and struggling with my sexuality and thinking I would have to hide that part of myself to ever be a professional performer, seeing someone like Gavin live so authentically and proudly of who he was, showed me it was ok to be proud of who I was and LOVE myself. I sadly never got to meet him or see him perform live but he still taught me love. I know I’m not alone in this. The last 24 hours I have seen so many other queer and gay performers posting the same thing.”

Luke, I know that’s right. Thank you for sharing that. And just to co-sign on it, Jonathan Groff texted me this:

“Gavin taught me the life changing power of opening up your heart to love. Our romantic relationship changed the course of my life forever. Even though I had come out as gay to my friends and family in 2008, I still felt deep shame. I had worshiped him for years as a performer, but when I got to know him as a person in 2009 and the channel of love opened up between us, he gave me the gift of an all-consuming passion and my soul bloomed. Public displays of affection used to make my whole body tense, and suddenly I was all over Gavin on street corners without giving it a second thought. Films, poetry, music, art, all of it came into focus. But it was his activism that shook me to the core. He monologued with such purity and honesty about equality, rooted in his own struggles with his identity. He organized the Broadway Impact trip to the marriage equality march in DC. I’ll never forget a specific moment of looking over at his shining face with the purity of his heart beaming out of his eyes. The powerful light he radiated completely possessed me and snapped me into evolution, I turned from looking at him and immediately came out of the closet publicly. The tidal wave of his passion for love burst my heart open permanently and I have never been the same.

Laura Camien:
Wow. Chokes up.

Susan Blackwell
Yeah. How about that? How about them apples? And here is a different, um, a different take on that power of acceptance that Gavin embodied. Heather Mieko Lackey shared:

“In October of 2023, our musical theater class of 1998 had our 25th reunion in Ann Arbor Michigan. 15 of 20 from our graduating class were able to go to our reunion. Gavin was a driving force in keeping us all together. At our last reunion, Gavin and I were talking about aging. It’s something I’ve really been having a hard time with. My physical appearance is something I’ve struggled with my whole life and getting older and saggier and wrinklier does not help! He told me that he had decided to stop comparing himself to his 25-year-old self, and that when he looks in the mirror each day, he says, ‘Lookin’ good, kid!’ In December, I was texting with him and I said, “Your words about feeling good about yourself really stuck with me. And not comparing ourselves with our 25 year old selves.” And he wrote back, “Let her go. This one is the one that matters now.” Those few words had such a profound impact on me. Since I posted about this on Facebook, I’ve gotten phone calls, texts, and comments on the post – about how his words to me helped them, too. I hope we can all look in the mirror and say, ‘Lookin’ good, kid.’

Love that. And I’m so thankful for Heather sharing that. 

Laura Camien
Yes

Susan Blackwell
And while we’re talking about loving ourselves, let's talk about love. This is an anonymous share. 
“I got to know Gav when he got his lake house in 2019. I was having a really hard time in a relationship, & Gavin used to sit with me in his kitchen & listen to me talk through what was happening, sometimes for hrs. He would make us “midwestern medicine” which is a tin roof sundae—what his mom made him growing up: ice cream, chocolate sauce, and dry roasted peanuts. One day he said something that changed my life: “love is not a feeling, love is a doing.” He had learned that being loved by someone is the things they do for/to/around you, not a feeling that they say they have. And loving someone back is behavior. It now guided all his relationships and helped me guide mine. I’m so struck how Gavin clearly meant what he said: he was generous and nurtured so many people. He actively loved them. And they felt that.”

And for more on that, the co-founder of the Performing Arts Project, Jonathan Bernstein:

“The thing that I take from Gavin, almost above all else, is his, um, brazen willingness to embrace. Full stop. To embrace literally–to, actually, he was a very tactile guy. And I think in a lot of ways he taught me how to hug. Like, to just really hug and touch. And, um, and greet and say goodbye. Those were important things to him, and he did them with a lot of vigor. And, and, in so doing he had a kind of, uh, very, um monumental wingspan, and I mean that literally actually. He had incredibly, like, long arms and fingers, and he just sort of was often seen to be stretched out, embracing east and west in such gloriously un-self-conscious ways. And I hope, I hope among the many things I’ve learned from him is that—is the necessity of moving your elbows away from your ribcage. And my elbows can often be found tethered to my ribcage. And knowing him, I would think they are more seldom to be found where they used to be, and I’m able to, uh, reach out.”

Musical Interlude

Susan Blackwell
Thank you for those words, Jonathan. Here’s a few words from a friend of the podcast, on the topic of gratitude, which I think was another one of the dimensions of Gavin Creel. Take it away, Lin Manuel Miranda.

Lin Manuel Miranda (Audio):
Hi, Susan, it’s Lin. Um, when I look back on my text messages with Gavin over the years, stretching back as far as my text messages go, what I see over and over again is gratitude. I don’t think there’s an unkind word in the entire text thread going back a decade when we first met when he was on hair with so many good friends of ours like [Jonathan] Groff and [Tommy] Kail and [Will] Swenson. And, um, he never failed to take a moment to remind me, um, how grateful I should be and we should be for actually getting to do the thing we love for a living. One of my favorites—anytime he saw anyone singing Hamilton, he would send it to me. Um, or anything I was doing. Um, I’m going to send you a video of him. He was walking by a school and heard these kids singing “My Shot,” and first is a video of him just freaking out that it’s happening and then there’s a video of him being like—

Gavin Creel (audio, via Lin)
What’s your name? I’m going to send this to Lin. Lin’s a friend of mine.

Students
Really? Oh my god!

Gavin Creel
Yeah, I just took a video of you. Tell me your name

Student 1
I’m Harrison. 

Student 2
I’m Isabelle.

Gavin Creel
I’m just walking down the street, Lin, and you’re…you’re just in school today?

Students
Yeah!

Gavin Creel
And they’re fucking singing Hamilton. You’re changing the world, man!

Like, say hi, I’ll send this video to him! And them freaking out, and him going “You’re changing the world, man!” Because that’s—he just kind of was generosity and collaboration personified. That is totally the kind of adventure that would just take him on a detour through his day. A text to a friend and, um, and let me freak these kids out and let them know that their dreams are a lot closer than they think they are. So, I will try to take that gratitude with me, even though I will miss him every day of my life like the rest of us. Love you.”

Musical Interlude

Susan Blackwell
Thank you for that, Lin. A few last gems of wisdom, from Gavin. Jordan Wrote:

Hi Susan. I'm from Australia but was living in London when Hair was playing. Gavin did some side gigs in London and the first was his solo show, but the whole cast of Hair  were there. It sold out so Gav and the cast did a mini show outside for those who missed out. 
At one stage he asked the crowd to close our eyes for, “just 10 seconds to give something back to the universe and bless those we love.” I've been trying to do that a lot this week. Thanks, Jordan.

Thank you for that, Jordan. And Taylor Trensch, whom Gavin co-starred with in Hello, Dolly wrote:

What did I learn from Gavin… My gosh, so many things… The importance of seeking joy and creating a little stockpile of it in your heart, because pain comes for us all and it’s a little easier to face when you’re prepared with an antidote.

That, and the power of a perfectly timed fart.

Laughter. Thank you for that, Taylor.

Laura Camien
Oh, gosh.

Susan Blackwell
In conclusion, speaking with the great acting teacher Jen Waldman, she shared that her students were grieving that they’d never have the opportunity to work with Gavin. And because I was in the midst of preparing for this episode, and I’ve been soaking in the glory of Gavin Creel, I said, “That’s true. They may not have directly intersected with Gavin, or ever have the chance to work with him, or ever have the chance to sing with him, but if they want to get closer to the Gavin of it all, they can embody all of those qualities that made him so remarkable: his kindness, his curiosity, his gratitude, his nobody-is-above-me/nobody-is-below-me non-hierarchical nature, his warmth, his playfulness, his intelligence, his lifelong learning. We can embody all of those elements, and we can be that for ourselves. And I think we can be that for each other. And that is my spark.

Laura Camien
Yeah. Choking up. Suzy B.

Susan Blackwell
Laura.

Laura Camien
That was beautiful. I’m just really grateful that you did that call-out and that you gave everybody the opportunity to tell all their stories to you so that we could all take part and all continue to learn from Gavin. It means a lot.

Susan Blackwell
Yeah, yeah. One of my regrets in life—I don’t have many regrets in life, but one of them is that for years, literally years, I have been talking with Gavin about making something together and, I mean, it’s throughout all of our emails with each other. I remember so clearly when we went to see Hello, Dolly! Being backstage with Gavin and Taylor Trensch and being like…Would you guys maybe want to…you know? Do something? And they were like… name it and when! And one of my regrets is knowing that “way leads to way” and we were busy with our own projects and lives, and I lost that opportunity. But, even in my regret, I’m like…WWGD? What would Gavin do? And so, I’ve got some work to do on that. Yeah.

Laura Camien
That’s right. Yes.

Susan Blackwell
So friends, that’s it. This episode of The Spark File is made on the lands of the Lanape and Mohican people. And as always, we hope that it puts another bunch of sparks in your file. Listen, if there’s a spark you’d like us to explore, or you’d like to learn more about how to coach with us to accomplish your creative goals, you can email us at getcreative @ thesparkfile . com or reach us through our website thesparkfile . com.

Laura Camien
We’ll even happily take your feedback, but first you know the drill. You have to share a creative risk that you have taken recently.

Susan Blackwell
Rate, review and subscribe to this podcast. It really, really helps other listeners to find us. Also, if you liked this podcast, if you think it would be of service to others, if you think it would be healing to others, we hope that you’ll share it with people that you love, and if you didn’t like it… I don’t even know what to say to you. Life is too short.

Laura Camien
On the other hand,  if something lights you up and you are inspired by the wisdom of Gavin Creel, we’re writing you a forever permission slip to make that thing that’s been knocking at your door. It’s your turn to take that spark and turn it into a flame. 

Susan Blackwell
You know you’ve gotta take it, and make it!

Laura Camien
Take it away, Gavin

Exit Music, featuring the voice of Gavin Creel